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Heavy - Enable melee weapon options when using the Heavy Bolt Rifle

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8 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 6:07:52 PM

As is, there's really no incentive to use the HBR outside of LARPing under the tabletop rules, and that seems to be the reason he was given the HBR at all. In the current build, choosing the HBR just turns the class into Tactical but worse.


My suggestion is that there's a check on which primary weapon is selected, and if you pick the HBR, you gain access to the Combat Knife and Chainsword, which in itself is just as equally tabletop accurate. Selecting any of the two-handed heavy weapons force checks you into the standard weapon bash option and disables the melee weapon options.


Incidentally, if Assault ever gets primary weapons like in that one screenshot, do the same check system so primary weapons simply disable the Power Fist and Thunder Hammer since they mess with how animations would work with two-handed weapons.

Updated 8 hours ago.
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7 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 7:05:48 PM

Why? So that you can play a very bad Tactical?


Heavy should absolutely NOT get a melee weapon, what they need is a proper Heavy Stance when aiming with the Heavy Bolt Rifle. Something that increase rate of fire, accuracy, damage, range and penetration WITHOUT "zooming in" (unless you have the scope version of the gun).

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7 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 7:16:20 PM

HN971 wrote:

Why? So that you can play a very bad Tactical?


Heavy should absolutely NOT get a melee weapon, what they need is a proper Heavy Stance when aiming with the Heavy Bolt Rifle. Something that increase rate of fire, accuracy, damage, range and penetration WITHOUT "zooming in" (unless you have the scope version of the gun).

Heavy using HBR with no melee option is literally a worse Tactical, that's the entire point.

Why would a gun that Tactical can use with ease get a heavy stance that magically modifies the entire gun's mechanics? Heavy plants his legs and suddenly the HBR is firing higher caliber rounds that fly further and penetrate armor harder? That's not how any of Heavy's current weapons work, the base heavy stance simply increases fire rate and reduces spread under the notion Heavy cannot handle the maximum fire rate without being braced, not because it can't shoot that fast at all. The HBR's maximum fire rate can be handled by Tactical, so now you'd have to make the gun worse for that class for it to fit the wedge you've deemed suitable for Heavy. You also have the problem of not being able to buff this hypothetical heavy stance with related perks, because Tactical would be unable to utilize them, they'd be dead in the tree and Tactical would lose out on at least 4 slots.


Heavy getting melee options to go alongside the HBR would not only make it a viable choice over the Heavy Bolter, it gives the class another unique build that would actually gel into the forced meme melee perks the devs keep focusing on.

Updated 6 hours ago.
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4 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 10:46:29 PM

I mean Heavy Intercessors are a thing. So I don't see why not. It beats having to wait for a potential (not actually going to happen) new class for them to add to get to be one. Is it optimal? Probably not, but I have actually been having a blast with the HBR to clear Minoris waves after popping the Halo, then stomping the yard and instant killing a tonne of them with the melee prestige perks. And pulling out the HBP on anything Majoris and up. And I've been very successful with those runs. A death or two to be sure now and again. And granted I do think they could add a few more prestige perks to the heavy weapon playstyles, I have welcome this change and been having a great time being a wrecking ball.


That said, I think they should go no further than what is standard issue for an Astartes for melee weapons. Chainsword and Tac knife respectively.

Updated 4 hours ago.
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3 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 10:58:50 PM

Shotgunky wrote:

HN971 wrote:

Why? So that you can play a very bad Tactical?


Heavy should absolutely NOT get a melee weapon, what they need is a proper Heavy Stance when aiming with the Heavy Bolt Rifle. Something that increase rate of fire, accuracy, damage, range and penetration WITHOUT "zooming in" (unless you have the scope version of the gun).

Heavy using HBR with no melee option is literally a worse Tactical, that's the entire point.

So... giving it a melee weapon, to LITERALLY make it like a tactical (but without all the perks that actually make the gun work for a tactical) is your solution?


My guy, the problem of that weapon on Heavy isn't that it plays not enough like a tactical, it's that it doesn't play like a heavy enough.

This weapon is the only one that doesn't have any Heavy Stance bonus, which is why it sucks big time.


Just give it a heavy stance, make it so that it become perfectly accurate (literally 0 spray or deviation), make it so that you don't have a zoom (pointless when you are pinpoint accurate), being able to stay aware of your surrounding is more important, and give it a solid Damage, range, penetration and attack speed bonus while on heavy stance.


On top of that, tag on the Multimelta perk a "Reload you Heavy Bolt Rifle when you perform a gunstrike" and suddenly you got a very decent weapon that ACTUALLY play like heavy.

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3 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 11:08:00 PM

HN971 wrote:

Shotgunky wrote:

HN971 wrote:

Why? So that you can play a very bad Tactical?


Heavy should absolutely NOT get a melee weapon, what they need is a proper Heavy Stance when aiming with the Heavy Bolt Rifle. Something that increase rate of fire, accuracy, damage, range and penetration WITHOUT "zooming in" (unless you have the scope version of the gun).

Heavy using HBR with no melee option is literally a worse Tactical, that's the entire point.

So... giving it a melee weapon, to LITERALLY make it like a tactical (but without all the perks that actually make the gun work for a tactical) is your solution?


My guy, the problem of that weapon on Heavy isn't that it plays not enough like a tactical, it's that it doesn't play like a heavy enough.

This weapon is the only one that doesn't have any Heavy Stance bonus, which is why it sucks big time.


Just give it a heavy stance, make it so that it become perfectly accurate (literally 0 spray or deviation), make it so that you don't have a zoom (pointless when you are pinpoint accurate), being able to stay aware of your surrounding is more important, and give it a solid Damage, range, penetration and attack speed bonus while on heavy stance.


On top of that, tag on the Multimelta perk a "Reload you Heavy Bolt Rifle when you perform a gunstrike" and suddenly you got a very decent weapon that ACTUALLY play like heavy.

You are hypothetically creating parameters to a weapon that do not exist for any of Heavy's other base weapons, for the sake of making it play more like a weapon he already has when it's heavily perked out and using damage/spread modifiers -- that being the Heavy Bolter. Again, the heavy weapons do not receive damage bonuses, armor penetration etc. in the base heavy stance, those are perks applied via their trees. The Heavy Bolt Rifle cannot have these as perks, and you're brushing over the fact these would have to be innate aspects of the gun. Meaning if the Heavy Bolt Rifle innately had e.g. 30%+ more damage, 30% less spread, 30% higher fire rate etc. while in heavy stance, on top of its standard perk tree, all you're doing is still creating a worse Heavy Bolter that has to reload after 50ish shots constantly.


Meanwhile, just giving him an actual melee weapon creates a unique playstyle for the class separate from the Heavy Bolter.

Updated 3 hours ago.
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3 hours ago
Mar 15, 2025, 11:22:28 PM

Shotgunky wrote:

You are hypothetically creating parameters to a weapon that do not exist for any of Heavy's other base weapons, for the sake of making it play more like a weapon he already has when it's heavily perked out and using damage/spread modifiers -- that being the Heavy Bolter. Again, the heavy weapons do not receive damage bonuses, armor penetration etc. in the base heavy stance, those are perks applied via their trees. The Heavy Bolter cannot have these as perks, and you're brushing over the fact these would have to be innate aspects of the gun. Meaning if the Heavy Bolter innately had e.g. 30%+ more damage, 30% less spread, 30% higher fire rate etc. while in heavy stance, on top of its standard perk tree, all you're doing is still creating a worse Heavy Bolter that has to reload after 50ish shots constantly.


Meanwhile, just giving him an actual melee weapon creates a unique playstyle for the class separate from the Heavy Bolter.

I LOVE how you try to counter me with "no oder weapon get a bonus on heavy stance" (which is literally a lie, all of them get attack speed in heavy stance... EXCEPT the HBR), and your solution to that is to... give it a melee weapon, which is something that no other weapon get....
WTF are you talking about?


You are literally trying to shut down an actually good idea by pretending it would create an exception, when you own awful idea is LITERALLY to create an exception for it.
And again, other weapons have a bonus in heavy stance already, wtf are you on?


Again, if your whole big brain idea is to simply make the heavy a worse tactical by handing him a melee weapon, you have clearly no idea how to design a game and stick to class role and fantasy.

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an hour ago
Mar 16, 2025, 1:17:32 AM

HN971 wrote:

Shotgunky wrote:

HN971 wrote:

Why? So that you can play a very bad Tactical?


Heavy should absolutely NOT get a melee weapon, what they need is a proper Heavy Stance when aiming with the Heavy Bolt Rifle. Something that increase rate of fire, accuracy, damage, range and penetration WITHOUT "zooming in" (unless you have the scope version of the gun).

Heavy using HBR with no melee option is literally a worse Tactical, that's the entire point.

So... giving it a melee weapon, to LITERALLY make it like a tactical (but without all the perks that actually make the gun work for a tactical) is your solution?


My guy, the problem of that weapon on Heavy isn't that it plays not enough like a tactical, it's that it doesn't play like a heavy enough.

This weapon is the only one that doesn't have any Heavy Stance bonus, which is why it sucks big time.


Just give it a heavy stance, make it so that it become perfectly accurate (literally 0 spray or deviation), make it so that you don't have a zoom (pointless when you are pinpoint accurate), being able to stay aware of your surrounding is more important, and give it a solid Damage, range, penetration and attack speed bonus while on heavy stance.


On top of that, tag on the Multimelta perk a "Reload you Heavy Bolt Rifle when you perform a gunstrike" and suddenly you got a very decent weapon that ACTUALLY play like heavy.

Brother you are getting needlessly hostile. If you don't have anything constructive to say, stay silent. You already made it clear you don't like his solution, no need to work yourself up.

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30 minutes ago
Mar 16, 2025, 1:54:51 AM

Shining_Darkness wrote:

Brother you are getting needlessly hostile. If you don't have anything constructive to say, stay silent. You already made it clear you don't like his solution, no need to work yourself up.

Brother this is a forum, a place where you are meant to express yourself. If you don't like it, just close your browser and go touch some grass.

It's pretty funny that you try to pull a "if you don't have anything constructive to say" in response to a post that literally had only constructive things to say on the topic, while typing a response LITERALLY devoid of any constructive things to say.


The idea of giving a melee weapon to heavy to compensate for how bad the HBR is on him is a stupid idea that need to be shut down as it not only don't adress the root of the problem (HBR bad) and goes against what the heavy should be (shot the gun).

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