I just cant anymore with the gunstrike death. Not having any invincibility frames during gunstrike is crazy ridiculous. You can parry trash, try to stagger aoe and if you do a gunstrike by mistake you die. Its completely stupid that you get punish for using the game mechanics.

Also, the range spamming attacks are ridiculous, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE IS NO COVER MECHANICS WTF. You can go from 100% armor and 100% health to dead because there 25 trash mobs spamming range attacks for 3 seconds on you. ROLLING DOES NOTHING.
Please TEST your stuff. This make the meta just rolling around hoping rng is on your side. Its going to eventually kill your game because this aint fun.

Theres also another difficulty lvl coming, what is it going to be? more rollings and dying from range attacks? or dying even faster if you do a gunstrike by mistake?

Listen to the community and fix your mechanics because its extremely unbalanced. I dont even care if parry window is harder to get or whatever, but MAKE THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME NOT PUNISH YOU FOR USING THEM FFS

yep lol

Gun strike isn't perfect, but as an Assault, it's also important for livelording in a swarm.  Arguably as integral as a Fencing weapon.  The game isn't designed to spam rolling which is why it probably doesn't feel like it's working. 

If 25 Termagaunts are shooting you from range, your team is failing you extremely hard.  AI should be improved if you're running with them, but if you're with players, it's a team game.  In L4D there are multiple specials you can't do anything about alone because if you get caught it's up to your team to save you.  Your team needs to recognize the threats and plan accordingly and if they don't, it isn't the game's fault. 

Losing a full bar of armor on every difficulty from a single minoris melee attack is the game's fault and really should be changed.  Ranges enemies having perfect aim is the game's fault and should be changed.  I think those two things should be fixed before gun strike is given iframes, because I think it'll be a world of difference. 

You effectively have to try to dodge every particle coming out of every enemy. The fact that "block" weapons are useless exacerbates that, since so much of play becomes not actually playing the game and just parrying attacks. If you can't do that, you spend most of your time panic rolling away from giant mobs of enemies until you either get a cooldown or luck out on the AI's spacing. Then you can try to manufacture a gun strike or hope something somewhere is ready to be executed.

The game's combat just isn't satisfying at the moment because of its total preoccupation on what it considers difficulty. You either overwhelm the game design with numbers via something like a melta, or you have to micro manage everything to the point that it becomes an unfun slog.

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PlagueOfGripes wrote:

You effectively have to try to dodge every particle coming out of every enemy. The fact that "block" weapons are useless exacerbates that, since so much of play becomes not actually playing the game and just parrying attacks. If you can't do that, you spend most of your time panic rolling away from giant mobs of enemies until you either get a cooldown or luck out on the AI's spacing. Then you can try to manufacture a gun strike or hope something somewhere is ready to be executed.

The game's combat just isn't satisfying at the moment because of its total preoccupation on what it considers difficulty. You either overwhelm the game design with numbers via something like a melta, or you have to micro manage everything to the point that it becomes an unfun slog.

"Not actually playing the game and just parrying attacks" doesn't compute for me.  Parrying in this game is basically attacking since you either get gun strikes or delete minoris enemies.  It also usually gives you space to choose your own attack, apply pressure to a majoris, etc.

Personally I think the combat in general is extremely satisfying.  Just needs a few tweaks to feel more reasonable, but it's still all very doable and fun to me. 

Darktide has a mechanic where every class can regain armor through attacks, and it's a fundamental aspect of the game, even at level 1. It regenerates quickly, taking less than a minute. This should be adjusted.

Space Marine 2 should improve this aspect so that armor isn't too weak and more reasonable.   ​

I keep getting told that the game is perfect and it’s fine, yet more posts like this pop up

And it all goes into what I and others have said, the games mechanics need reworks in some ways

Minor and ranged enemies would be complications and not full scale deleters IF we could recover health and armour was properly balanced to be armour and not toilet paper sheets with a 25 second cool-down or requiring you to spam the mechanics to regain, making you often spam just to survive basic encounters

The threats should be the majors, not literally everything 

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nikof135 wrote:

​Why is there a weapon with the block tag, it is absolutely not viable and people never choose it compared to balance, fencing, you need to give something for the block weapon, perhaps so that normal attacks go through the block or much larger cleew, or so that the block protects from all attacks and there was a constant stance with him like a shield

it feels like they tried to balance that by making those weapons hit harder faster and cleave more.. but due to the constant aggression of the enemies, a fencing type is usually the only choice because it’s the only means of defending yourself consistently AND attacking at the same time

Which if you ask me, is a failure of game design.. the same with any meta weapon or playstyle, as soon as one weapon or playstyle renders the rest pointless, it’s a problem, it creates stagnation, not variety and freedom of the players choice

The melta weapons are meta right now, because the other weapons aren’t satisfying for most to use.. often being the only way they can survive or enjoy the game

But we have faith the devs will do something about everything

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Cyanid_ wrote:

I just cant anymore with the gunstrike death. Not having any invincibility frames during gunstrike is crazy ridiculous. You can parry trash, try to stagger aoe and if you do a gunstrike by mistake you die. Its completely stupid that you get punish for using the game mechanics.

Also, the range spamming attacks are ridiculous, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE IS NO COVER MECHANICS WTF. You can go from 100% armor and 100% health to dead because there 25 trash mobs spamming range attacks for 3 seconds on you. ROLLING DOES NOTHING.
Please TEST your stuff. This make the meta just rolling around hoping rng is on your side. Its going to eventually kill your game because this aint fun.

Theres also another difficulty lvl coming, what is it going to be? more rollings and dying from range attacks? or dying even faster if you do a gunstrike by mistake?

Listen to the community and fix your mechanics because its extremely unbalanced. I dont even care if parry window is harder to get or whatever, but MAKE THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME NOT PUNISH YOU FOR USING THEM FFS

It's not the range spam that's ridiculous, it's the range AI tracking that's ridiculous. Those mf can track you like a homing missile even if you're behind cover. You know the shotgun tyranid? They literally can calculate trajectory to hit your ass behind cover no joke, try hiding behind cover, they will try as hard as they can to hit you with their projectile trajectory
They definitely should lose track of us when we dodge immediately, right now they will calculate where you land after dodge and such, that's why it's bullshit most of the time dealing with them

I agree that Blocking weapons should have much higher stagger/cleave/power to compensate for the inability to perfect parry.  Right now the tradeoff seems woefully not worth it given the amount of relative power minoris enemies have.

I don't think game mechanics need reworks, per se.  I think they should start small, tune the armor damage of minoris melee (and ranged accuracy), and see how everything settles.  I think it would be a massive, noticeable difference that would allow them greater freedom for doing things like much more frequent waves, etc.  You also wouldn't have to "spam gun strike" (I don't know why using an attack in conjunction with other attacks as part of an overall gameplan is considered spam), health wouldn't get chipped as easily, the player wouldn't feel stronger and likely do more cleaving light attacks, etc. etc.

I don't think the real issue is that you don't have invincibility frames when doing gun strike. The real issue is the raw amount of armor is so low that you absolutely need i-frames to function.

Doubling the amount of armor would also fix this problem, and would make recovering armor in combat when you aren't yet empty much more effective, as well as giving you a higher ceiling for technique moves affording you armor protection in battle.

The current armor is so small in protection value that it will be gone pretty much instantly, and therefore you are scrabbling to get that one armor pip which will very frequently be gone before you are even done with the animation. If you are at 3/6 and do this, now it's more of a contest between your technique making your armor go up and enemy damage decreasing it. A good move will put you at 4/6 without being damaged, a bad one at 2/6 since you gained 1 but lost 2.

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ledarsi wrote:

I don't think the real issue is that you don't have invincibility frames when doing gun strike. The real issue is the raw amount of armor is so low that you absolutely need i-frames to function.

Doubling the amount of armor would also fix this problem, and would make recovering armor in combat when you aren't yet empty much more effective, as well as giving you a higher ceiling for technique moves affording you armor protection in battle.

The current armor is so small in protection value that it will be gone pretty much instantly, and therefore you are scrabbling to get that one armor pip which will very frequently be gone before you are even done with the animation. If you are at 3/6 and do this, now it's more of a contest between your technique making your armor go up and enemy damage decreasing it. A good move will put you at 4/6 without being damaged, a bad one at 2/6 since you gained 1 but lost 2.

Interesting solution, increasing max armor to 6. You could get more or less the same result by reducing all enemy damage by half too, but honestly i-frame on gun strike is easier fix

I don't think invincibility for gunstrikes should be implemented. Gunstrikes are intended to be high risk/high reward with how much damage they do. It's really a symptom of armor damage from minoris being too high. decrease the armor damage and gunstrikes would feel a lot better

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fuji996 wrote:

I don't think invincibility for gunstrikes should be implemented. Gunstrikes are intended to be high risk/high reward with how much damage they do. It's really a symptom of armor damage from minoris being too high. decrease the armor damage and gunstrikes would feel a lot better

Preach.