A few days ago, I achieved all in game achievements and prestige levels with every character, and I'm currently enjoying the game. 

However, while playing, I noticed a phenomenon that didn't feel very good. 

The number of players choosing Chaos maps was extremely low. It felt like almost 95% of players were avoiding Chaos maps.

I started to wonder: what is causing players to hesitate to choose Chaos? 

After thinking it over carefully, I concluded that the problem lies with the attacks from the cultist mobs. 

Normally, attack power should scale according to the enemy’s level. 

However, despite cultists being weak mobs that die easily, their attacks deal critical damage and cause strong knockback when they hit. 

During enemy offensives, a large number of cultists appear, overwhelming players and creating exhaustion and frustration even though they aren't elite enemies.

Another major issue is the overwhelming dominance of ranged combat compared to melee. 

The only ways to avoid ranged attacks are by hiding behind walls, dodging, or using a shield but most players don’t want to be forced into that kind of gameplay. 

If there is no clear reward for successfully dodging or blocking ranged attacks, then these attacks only serve to make the game feel tiring and unpleasant.

Yup, a melee focused reward game where Chaos enemies mostly shoot at you, and where armour recharge takes way, way too long (take a cue from Halo already). Chaos additionally have no synaptic shock like the nids do, so crowd control reward for taking out Majoris + enemies doesn't exist and imbalances the game.

Further proof the devs don't play their own game...

I wouldn't want to see cultists drop to the floor just because we killed a CSM but maybe become scared? retreating generally losing cohesion would go a long way in helping.

Cultists also hard to see when they can be on the other side of the map sniping you only know when the light comes on. I'd understand if we had cover mechanics to use. Chaos also don't have any boss fights, I am hoping the new unit will be an actual boss with mechanics. It is a huge missed oppotunity for me that we don't have fights against a Demon Prince, Greater Demon etc etc Chaos has soo many cool 'boss' units. For me at least I just don't find the Chaos Ops as fun as the nids and its not the difficulty.

I prob voice unpopular opinion but I don't find chaos ops that bad. Yeah those small cultists are annoying but at the same time they won't get enraged (at least I don't recall them being enraged).

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

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Naus_ wrote:

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

I'm inclined to agree. I can take on chaos missions without problem it's just that chaos missions are long and drawn out (looking at you reliquary) and rubric marines are unfun to fight with their teleport shenanigans. Meanwhile nid missions are mostly straightforward brawls and epic defenses.

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Kith wrote:
I don't do Chaos missions because of the disc enemies. Their weird hitboxes and funky attack timing do not mesh well with SM2's janky performance and chunky latency and as a result they're just absolutely miserable to fight.

These are my most hated enemies in the game by far. Good luck hitting them with plasma.

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Kith wrote:
I don't do Chaos missions because of the disc enemies. Their weird hitboxes and funky attack timing do not mesh well with SM2's janky performance and chunky latency and as a result they're just absolutely miserable to fight.

​I've grown to like Chaos operations (except for Obelisk), but I agree with you about those flying f*ckers. I think they shouldn't have been added to the game.

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Naus_ wrote:

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

What's the main reason you think it's not fun?

I'm not a fan of the chaos missions for two reasons.   

The first is the previously mentioned "nonstop fusillade of lethal small arms fire".  Shoot!, combat roll!, shoot!  combat roll! Over and over again just isn't fun. Also not a fan of disc shamans.

The second is the preponderance of "go here, hit that switch" mechanics.  Especially the times where the switch moves from run to run.  Trying to do these solo (or with players who don't really know what they're doing)  is just irritating. 

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ilovesspacemarine wrote:

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Naus_ wrote:

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

What's the main reason you think it's not fun?

1. Teleporting.

2. Spawning behind your back - tyranids also can drop behind you but they do not as often as chaos. Tyranids also have simmilar mechanic of crap mines but chaos is still more annoying.

3. Chaos claims the trophy of having most annoying unit to fight it the game - which is this **** on flying pancake. 

4. I have a feeling that there is more ranged enemies which are chore to fight agaist.

5. Minoris have shields. 

6. Some weapons feel very weak vs chaos. For example, 9/10 times Heavy will go on chaos mission with plasma, 1/10 times with bolter, never with melta. In tyranid ops all weapons are viable. Which makes chaos missions not only annoying but also boring faster. 

And also positive aspects of tyranids too downgrade chaos missions. Tyranids are fun because everyone likes to be swarmed by worms and then cut their way through them in the name of the Primarch. On chaos missions when you get swarmed by minoris there will also be:

1) Terminators shooting these damn rockets at you,

2) These ****** on discs that make fighting impossible and force you to retreat,

3) Few squads of normal marines shooting and teleporting all over the place. 

+ chaos majoris have more annoying responses when you engage them in melee than tyranids ones.

I mean I like chaos missions, I did them many times on all difficulties but I think out of my 500h of gameplay I played maybe 100h chaos missions, 100h pvp, and 300 tyranid ones. 

My problem with them is the difference between ranged and melee weapons in this game. Against tyranids, any weapon is viable. Even then, ranged weapons are still generally better for both consistency and damage, (EX: the highest I ever see a melee class such as bulwark or assault hit in damage is just under 20k, whereas I consistently see heavy's hit 30-40k damage). Ranged weapons simply just do more damage on average and generate more contested health per point of damage on average. 

This is not usually a problem for tyranid maps as they have enough of a focus on melee combatants to let melee classes still perform well (though I would still love to see massive buffs to melee damage and/or contested health regen, for christs sake im risking everything by playing a slow af power fist assault only to end the match with half the damage of the two ranged classes on my team). The big problem is when it comes to chaos maps. Melee simply is not designed to be used against chaos, there is near constantly 30+ cultists spread around the map which if you take the time to range them with your pistol are time consuming, annoying, and leave you very open to getting ranged by everything else. The majoris very rarely can actually be killed before they teleport away, cancelling any stagger you had on them and instantly shooting at you again. Chaos majoris have an affinity to teleport on top of you and instantly do an unblockable, which if you were in the middle of a melee attack animation is just guaranteed damage (and guess who doesnt get locked into animations, RANGED WEAPONS). The Tzaangor enlightened will often times float just above your actual melee hitbox, making them even more annoying to engage with than normal. And simply just due to the nature of having to be up by enemies to do damage, you are more open to having the tiny amount of armor you can generate through executions consistently be ripped away by enemies shooting you in the back.

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Naus_ wrote:

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ilovesspacemarine wrote:

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Naus_ wrote:

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

What's the main reason you think it's not fun?

1. Teleporting.

2. Spawning behind your back - tyranids also can drop behind you but they do not as often as chaos. Tyranids also have simmilar mechanic of crap mines but chaos is still more annoying.

3. Chaos claims the trophy of having most annoying unit to fight it the game - which is this **** on flying pancake. 

4. I have a feeling that there is more ranged enemies which are chore to fight agaist.

5. Minoris have shields. 

6. Some weapons feel very weak vs chaos. For example, 9/10 times Heavy will go on chaos mission with plasma, 1/10 times with bolter, never with melta. In tyranid ops all weapons are viable. Which makes chaos missions not only annoying but also boring faster. 

And also positive aspects of tyranids too downgrade chaos missions. Tyranids are fun because everyone likes to be swarmed by worms and then cut their way through them in the name of the Primarch. On chaos missions when you get swarmed by minoris there will also be:

1) Terminators shooting these damn rockets at you,

2) These ****** on discs that make fighting impossible and force you to retreat,

3) Few squads of normal marines shooting and teleporting all over the place. 

+ chaos majoris have more annoying responses when you engage them in melee than tyranids ones.

I mean I like chaos missions, I did them many times on all difficulties but I think out of my 500h of gameplay I played maybe 100h chaos missions, 100h pvp, and 300 tyranid ones. 

Oh my. Seeing how you bro laid it out like this, there are quite a few disgusting aspects to it. Given how the balance has been handled so far, it’s no surprise that the majority of players avoid Chaos. What’s even more concerning is Saber’s indifference, despite clearly being aware of these issues.

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ilovesspacemarine wrote:

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Naus_ wrote:

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ilovesspacemarine wrote:

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Naus_ wrote:

Lol, people don't play chaos missions not because of cultists but simply because tyranid operations are more fun to play. 

What's the main reason you think it's not fun?

1. Teleporting.

2. Spawning behind your back - tyranids also can drop behind you but they do not as often as chaos. Tyranids also have simmilar mechanic of crap mines but chaos is still more annoying.

3. Chaos claims the trophy of having most annoying unit to fight it the game - which is this **** on flying pancake. 

4. I have a feeling that there is more ranged enemies which are chore to fight agaist.

5. Minoris have shields. 

6. Some weapons feel very weak vs chaos. For example, 9/10 times Heavy will go on chaos mission with plasma, 1/10 times with bolter, never with melta. In tyranid ops all weapons are viable. Which makes chaos missions not only annoying but also boring faster. 

And also positive aspects of tyranids too downgrade chaos missions. Tyranids are fun because everyone likes to be swarmed by worms and then cut their way through them in the name of the Primarch. On chaos missions when you get swarmed by minoris there will also be:

1) Terminators shooting these damn rockets at you,

2) These ****** on discs that make fighting impossible and force you to retreat,

3) Few squads of normal marines shooting and teleporting all over the place. 

+ chaos majoris have more annoying responses when you engage them in melee than tyranids ones.

I mean I like chaos missions, I did them many times on all difficulties but I think out of my 500h of gameplay I played maybe 100h chaos missions, 100h pvp, and 300 tyranid ones. 

Oh my. Seeing how you bro laid it out like this, there are quite a few disgusting aspects to it. Given how the balance has been handled so far, it’s no surprise that the majority of players avoid Chaos. What’s even more concerning is Saber’s indifference, despite clearly being aware of these issues.

Mhmm, I second these issues. Granted Chaos has been greatly improved for sure. But these points as well as he ones I made, seem to be the biggest pain points when it comes to fighting Chaos and why they are less enjoyable to fight against long term.