That's a great suggestion. Additionally, if shield bashing also included a taunt effect to draw enemy aggro, it could reinforce the Bulwark's identity as a true tank focused class. ​

​

ganjou234 wrote:

There is nothing that defines the Bulwark more than the shield, yet 90% of the time it is underpowered and underused in melee combat. Both bashing and passive blocking feel really underwhelming.

Problems

1. Bash does not flow well with combinations, none of the weapon melee combinations use the shield. No one uses bash in combat.
2. Bash does not block while animating, you will eat the damage of everything in front of you mid animation before you even stagger or damage them.
3. Bash does not do good base damage, nor does it scale with difficulty. It takes 4-5 bashes to kill a Gaunt, even more to kill Majoris.
4. Most of the Perks that do buff shield bash, do only one thing. Every other perk is way better option than taking bash perks.
5. We have perks that involve blocking range attacks, but no way of taunting range enemies to attack us, bashing does nothing when it could taunt.
6. We only have one Prestige Perk that involves blocking range attacks, yet no way of actually taunting range attackers.

Suggestions

1. Make Shield Bash act like parry and have a parry window.
2. Trigger some class perks via shield bash. ie: Intimidating Aura, Defensive Advantage, Defensive Mastery.
3. Scale shield bash damage with difficulty.
4. Allow combinations to flow into and out of a shield bash.
5. Let us plow through minoris when our shield is up. Just like in WWZ.

You guys did the shield better in WWZ, we could do so much things with the shield in WWZ. Please, please, please make it so in SM2.

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/9788-plead-to-devs-make-the-shield-great

1. I agree it needs a new function but why not just parry? 

2. Yeah something besides just damage would be goold

3. Interestingly enough it scales off your melee weapon. It's basically a shitty sprint attack because it's doing 0.5x your melee weapon, but with doodoo stagger damage. 

4. Yeah at least make the cancel into melee faster. I don't want to do the shield cancel to make the shield more usable. 

5. Not sure if that's possible but it'd be cool

Those shield bash perks are also really redundant in some aspects. Like 200% more damage shield bash couldn't be together with higher stagger because why? 

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ganjou234 wrote:

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KittyChillder wrote:

​

ganjou234 wrote:

There is nothing that defines the Bulwark more than the shield, yet 90% of the time it is underpowered and underused in melee combat. Both bashing and passive blocking feel really underwhelming.

Problems

1. Bash does not flow well with combinations, none of the weapon melee combinations use the shield. No one uses bash in combat.
2. Bash does not block while animating, you will eat the damage of everything in front of you mid animation before you even stagger or damage them.
3. Bash does not do good base damage, nor does it scale with difficulty. It takes 4-5 bashes to kill a Gaunt, even more to kill Majoris.
4. Most of the Perks that do buff shield bash, do only one thing. Every other perk is way better option than taking bash perks.
5. We have perks that involve blocking range attacks, but no way of taunting range enemies to attack us, bashing does nothing when it could taunt.
6. We only have one Prestige Perk that involves blocking range attacks, yet no way of actually taunting range attackers.

Suggestions

1. Make Shield Bash act like parry and have a parry window.
2. Trigger some class perks via shield bash. ie: Intimidating Aura, Defensive Advantage, Defensive Mastery.
3. Scale shield bash damage with difficulty.
4. Allow combinations to flow into and out of a shield bash.
5. Let us plow through minoris when our shield is up. Just like in WWZ.

You guys did the shield better in WWZ, we could do so much things with the shield in WWZ. Please, please, please make it so in SM2.

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/9788-plead-to-devs-make-the-shield-great

1. I agree it needs a new function but why not just parry? 

2. Yeah something besides just damage would be goold

3. Interestingly enough it scales off your melee weapon. It's basically a shitty sprint attack because it's doing 0.5x your melee weapon, but with doodoo stagger damage. 

4. Yeah at least make the cancel into melee faster. I don't want to do the shield cancel to make the shield more usable. 

5. Not sure if that's possible but it'd be cool

Those shield bash perks are also really redundant in some aspects. Like 200% more damage shield bash couldn't be together with higher stagger because why? 

1.  Because in melee you can parry attacks with something other than your weapon, ie: the shield.
   1. It solves the vulnerability during a shield bash.
   2. It is purely defensive in nature (holding the shield up).
   3. Bash specific perks.
2. Definitely. I also think they should rework the shield bash perks. (Both Focused Strength and Concussive Force).
   1. Focused Strength. Increased stagger and interrupts majoris red attacks and forces a stagger.
   2. Concussive force. 200% damage, adds a 8m power wave every 5 melee attacks blocked.
3. Lower damage can be offset if they added more utility and flow with melee.
4. Anything to make the shield more involved in melee combos.
5. They did it in WWZ, if you had your shield up it would shove, damage, and stagger enemies. Timed blocking was even more satisfying because you'd be able to block special zombie attacks (like the carnifex charge).

Parry orange attacks with shield... that sounds cool but at the same time I can see that it involves new animations and I don't think it is going to happen. At least not in SM2.

​

AshySamurai wrote:

​

ganjou234 wrote:

​

KittyChillder wrote:

​

ganjou234 wrote:

There is nothing that defines the Bulwark more than the shield, yet 90% of the time it is underpowered and underused in melee combat. Both bashing and passive blocking feel really underwhelming.

Problems

1. Bash does not flow well with combinations, none of the weapon melee combinations use the shield. No one uses bash in combat.
2. Bash does not block while animating, you will eat the damage of everything in front of you mid animation before you even stagger or damage them.
3. Bash does not do good base damage, nor does it scale with difficulty. It takes 4-5 bashes to kill a Gaunt, even more to kill Majoris.
4. Most of the Perks that do buff shield bash, do only one thing. Every other perk is way better option than taking bash perks.
5. We have perks that involve blocking range attacks, but no way of taunting range enemies to attack us, bashing does nothing when it could taunt.
6. We only have one Prestige Perk that involves blocking range attacks, yet no way of actually taunting range attackers.

Suggestions

1. Make Shield Bash act like parry and have a parry window.
2. Trigger some class perks via shield bash. ie: Intimidating Aura, Defensive Advantage, Defensive Mastery.
3. Scale shield bash damage with difficulty.
4. Allow combinations to flow into and out of a shield bash.
5. Let us plow through minoris when our shield is up. Just like in WWZ.

You guys did the shield better in WWZ, we could do so much things with the shield in WWZ. Please, please, please make it so in SM2.

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/9788-plead-to-devs-make-the-shield-great

1. I agree it needs a new function but why not just parry? 

2. Yeah something besides just damage would be goold

3. Interestingly enough it scales off your melee weapon. It's basically a shitty sprint attack because it's doing 0.5x your melee weapon, but with doodoo stagger damage. 

4. Yeah at least make the cancel into melee faster. I don't want to do the shield cancel to make the shield more usable. 

5. Not sure if that's possible but it'd be cool

Those shield bash perks are also really redundant in some aspects. Like 200% more damage shield bash couldn't be together with higher stagger because why? 

1.  Because in melee you can parry attacks with something other than your weapon, ie: the shield.
   1. It solves the vulnerability during a shield bash.
   2. It is purely defensive in nature (holding the shield up).
   3. Bash specific perks.
2. Definitely. I also think they should rework the shield bash perks. (Both Focused Strength and Concussive Force).
   1. Focused Strength. Increased stagger and interrupts majoris red attacks and forces a stagger.
   2. Concussive force. 200% damage, adds a 8m power wave every 5 melee attacks blocked.
3. Lower damage can be offset if they added more utility and flow with melee.
4. Anything to make the shield more involved in melee combos.
5. They did it in WWZ, if you had your shield up it would shove, damage, and stagger enemies. Timed blocking was even more satisfying because you'd be able to block special zombie attacks (like the carnifex charge).

Parry orange attacks with shield... that sounds cool but at the same time I can see that it involves new animations and I don't think it is going to happen. At least not in SM2.

Not sure that's true they can just use the existing parry animations for enemies and the shield bash animation as the parry for bulwark.

​

AshySamurai wrote:

​

ganjou234 wrote:

​

KittyChillder wrote:

​

ganjou234 wrote:

There is nothing that defines the Bulwark more than the shield, yet 90% of the time it is underpowered and underused in melee combat. Both bashing and passive blocking feel really underwhelming.

Problems

1. Bash does not flow well with combinations, none of the weapon melee combinations use the shield. No one uses bash in combat.
2. Bash does not block while animating, you will eat the damage of everything in front of you mid animation before you even stagger or damage them.
3. Bash does not do good base damage, nor does it scale with difficulty. It takes 4-5 bashes to kill a Gaunt, even more to kill Majoris.
4. Most of the Perks that do buff shield bash, do only one thing. Every other perk is way better option than taking bash perks.
5. We have perks that involve blocking range attacks, but no way of taunting range enemies to attack us, bashing does nothing when it could taunt.
6. We only have one Prestige Perk that involves blocking range attacks, yet no way of actually taunting range attackers.

Suggestions

1. Make Shield Bash act like parry and have a parry window.
2. Trigger some class perks via shield bash. ie: Intimidating Aura, Defensive Advantage, Defensive Mastery.
3. Scale shield bash damage with difficulty.
4. Allow combinations to flow into and out of a shield bash.
5. Let us plow through minoris when our shield is up. Just like in WWZ.

You guys did the shield better in WWZ, we could do so much things with the shield in WWZ. Please, please, please make it so in SM2.

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/9788-plead-to-devs-make-the-shield-great

1. I agree it needs a new function but why not just parry? 

2. Yeah something besides just damage would be goold

3. Interestingly enough it scales off your melee weapon. It's basically a shitty sprint attack because it's doing 0.5x your melee weapon, but with doodoo stagger damage. 

4. Yeah at least make the cancel into melee faster. I don't want to do the shield cancel to make the shield more usable. 

5. Not sure if that's possible but it'd be cool

Those shield bash perks are also really redundant in some aspects. Like 200% more damage shield bash couldn't be together with higher stagger because why? 

1.  Because in melee you can parry attacks with something other than your weapon, ie: the shield.
   1. It solves the vulnerability during a shield bash.
   2. It is purely defensive in nature (holding the shield up).
   3. Bash specific perks.
2. Definitely. I also think they should rework the shield bash perks. (Both Focused Strength and Concussive Force).
   1. Focused Strength. Increased stagger and interrupts majoris red attacks and forces a stagger.
   2. Concussive force. 200% damage, adds a 8m power wave every 5 melee attacks blocked.
3. Lower damage can be offset if they added more utility and flow with melee.
4. Anything to make the shield more involved in melee combos.
5. They did it in WWZ, if you had your shield up it would shove, damage, and stagger enemies. Timed blocking was even more satisfying because you'd be able to block special zombie attacks (like the carnifex charge).

Parry orange attacks with shield... that sounds cool but at the same time I can see that it involves new animations and I don't think it is going to happen. At least not in SM2.

What new animations? On the player or on the enemies? You can just keep the bash animation going, then a parry sound fx + parry event triggers.

Shield bash needs a fix so I think this is the best way to do it. Otherwise the shield will see no use in melee.

​

ilovesspacemarine wrote:

That's a great suggestion. Additionally, if shield bashing also included a taunt effect to draw enemy aggro, it could reinforce the Bulwark's identity as a true tank focused class. ​

Anything that makes the shield more involved in melee combat and anything that makes it more fluid.

I just remembered the video in youtube about the 10 levels of Lance. Just look how involved the shield is in combat..

10 Levels to Lance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USdtWlKlVUw

Bulwark's shield should  also account for something other than being able to block ranged attacks, namely , he should be able to block/parry certain attacks that others must dodge.
Examples being the Rubric Marines kick,Terminator's heavy slash, Tyranid Sword Warrior's dual slash attacks.

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Palumtra wrote:

Bulwark's shield should  also account for something other than being able to block ranged attacks, namely , he should be able to block/parry certain attacks that others must dodge.
Examples being the Rubric Marines kick,Terminator's heavy slash, Tyranid Sword Warrior's dual slash attacks.

Yep, even make it a perk, or allow timed perfect block to block red attacks.

The shield being able to block or parry unblockable attacks may be a little too strong balance wise, as it already mostly nullifies ranged attacks, letting it also nullify melee might be too strong. However, everything else I agree with. The shield bash is very janky to use. Take Vermintide or darktide for example, every melee weapon has a push attack, where you can fluidly go from blocking straight into an attack. Simply removing the awkward pause after bashing and letting you instantly queue up another melee attack would help so much with the flow of the shield. You should also be able to perform a shield bash coming out of a sprint as your shield is already up and would be a great and unique opener to engagements. Also taunting enemies on bash would be cool, such as being able to force the ravener and lictor that are harassing my sniper to target me. Combining a couple of the shield bash perks into one and adding one that lets you taunt on shield bash, block, and taunts enemies that are within the area of the banner when its placed would honestly create a new viable subclass for bulwark. Just an idea.

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Voidyll wrote:

The shield being able to block or parry unblockable attacks may be a little too strong balance wise, as it already mostly nullifies ranged attacks, letting it also nullify melee might be too strong.

I disagree with the first part.  Having a class that can direct counter Heavy attacks from enemies would be unique and give Bulwark a great power.  He's already relatively weak outside of certain perks. 

Perhaps blocking unparryable attacks must be done differently (with the shield bash) or something.  But, giving that ability allows the Bulwark to play differently.  

And while you say the shield gives the ability to block ranged attacks - it's pretty lackluster.  It leaves you open for other attacks and simply makes up for the long run to enemies that can whittle you down.  I play on Absolute and I simply cannot find many points where putting that shield up makes sense. 

That said, I do agree about finding a way to get the Shield Bash to be easier to mix into combat.  I use contoller - and a push of the thumbstick would be perfect.  But the way it is now - it's sloppy and it is too inefficient to use in combat for the most part.  Which sucks since several perks would be awesome to get usage out of.

I've said it before and I will say it again: The shield should have the Block weapon property and always count as perfect blocking. You should be able to hit shield bash on orange when you would normally hit parry on non-orange to deflect the unmarriable attack. A storm shield is capable of blocking lascannon fire and can even block anti-mater while the energy field holds it should be able to take any melee or non-psychic ranged attack (though it can totally also block psychic projectiles) this game has no question about it. It should not passively block them, that would be "too easy."

I will die on this hill.

Added a couple of ideas into the OP.

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1. Timed perfect block with the shield allows to block red attacks and grabs. Alternatively something like Power Guard from MHW:Iceborne: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3fM8bDdmfsY
2. Block/Guard Counter 
   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBHfbzqoQgQ
      
   2. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P9yX8fU4AOE
      
3. Block all attacks when in the influence of the Banner.