Can we get a mod menu for console so we can download the astartis mod or even better just put the astartis mod in game as a game mode

I don't understand, and I say this out of respect for this franchise, how you can like the mod. Some things are fine! Of course. But are you really content with mixing meaningless pieces so that D does your marine look good? Instead of receiving a quality, well-finished product...

Don't get me wrong, these guys do an incredible job. But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay. And that is a mistake.

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Khorne_Flakes wrote:

I don't understand, and I say this out of respect for this franchise, how you can like the mod. Some things are fine! Of course. But are you really content with mixing meaningless pieces so that D does your marine look good? Instead of receiving a quality, well-finished product...

Don't get me wrong, these guys do an incredible job. But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay. And that is a mistake.

Some people prefer that. It's fine. That's why the mod is popular in the first place. That said, saber could really try a little harder on monitoring bug reports... 

Khorne_Flakes wrote:
But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay.

As someone who's been doing game design for the past 15 years (oh god i'm so old), "what the fans want" is usually what you should be doing. Fun and expression are more important than balance, always.

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Kith wrote:

Khorne_Flakes wrote:
But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay.

As someone who's been doing game design for the past 15 years (oh god i'm so old), "what the fans want" is usually what you should be doing. Fun and expression are more important than balance, always.

15 years, wow, is a long time. I haven't been here that long, but I've learned to "set limits" on creativity to respect the lore. I completely understand your point of view and share it. It should be more flexible. We offer constructive criticism for the Gameplay 

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Evilevilterry wrote:

Can we get a mod menu for console so we can download the astartis mod or even better just put the astartis mod in game as a game mode

If you join a lobby that is being hosted by a pc player using the astartes overhaul mod then you will be able to take part in the modded games with 12 players etc. It does not work 100% of the time but it does most of the time. It might be worth you joining the warhammer workshop discord so you can find people running the mod to invite you to games.

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Khorne_Flakes wrote:

15 years, wow, is a long time. I haven't been here that long, but I've learned to "set limits" on creativity to respect the lore. I completely understand your point of view and share it. It should be more flexible. We offer constructive criticism for the Gameplay 

Oh absolutely, the lore is important (and in games like these, the point).

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Khorne_Flakes wrote:

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Kith wrote:

Khorne_Flakes wrote:
But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay.

As someone who's been doing game design for the past 15 years (oh god i'm so old), "what the fans want" is usually what you should be doing. Fun and expression are more important than balance, always.

15 years, wow, is a long time. I haven't been here that long, but I've learned to "set limits" on creativity to respect the lore. I completely understand your point of view and share it. It should be more flexible. We offer constructive criticism for the Gameplay 

You can paint a black templar pink if you want in vanilla game.... you are tripping with this state of thought dude...

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snowball_25 wrote:

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Khorne_Flakes wrote:

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Kith wrote:

Khorne_Flakes wrote:
But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay.

As someone who's been doing game design for the past 15 years (oh god i'm so old), "what the fans want" is usually what you should be doing. Fun and expression are more important than balance, always.

15 years, wow, is a long time. I haven't been here that long, but I've learned to "set limits" on creativity to respect the lore. I completely understand your point of view and share it. It should be more flexible. We offer constructive criticism for the Gameplay 

You can paint a black templar pink if you want in vanilla game.... you are tripping with this state of thought dude...

I don't understand, are you complaining about being given freedom? That's not what my message is about, dude.

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Kith wrote:

Khorne_Flakes wrote:
But they're just going with what the fans want, without considering how that affects gameplay.

As someone who's been doing game design for the past 15 years (oh god i'm so old), "what the fans want" is usually what you should be doing. Fun and expression are more important than balance, always.

The only problem with going with "what the fans want" is that fans do not know what they want and/or you only get feedback from a small potion of the players.

Just look at this forum. How many player do you think have posted here? 50%? 10%?

I guess that its less that 5% and of those 5% we mostly get players that complain.

Sure there are people that give valid and conductive feedback. 

But even then its based on what they want from the game, and not what the majority might like in the game.

I think focus are doing a lot of work, some of it I like, some I don't.

For example, I don't like that you can be the same class in the operations.

But I also know that changing that is not as easy as the mods makes it look.

Just take the voice acting, how do you get around that? Drop it completely? Add more characters/voice lines?  or let the characters be any class the player wants?

I do not know what would be the get way to go, but I can give my feedback and they can take it or leave it. 

​Yes, the thing is that Saber does not fix their mistakes or takes a very long time to do so, the servers are still crap, nothing changes, they added the FOV slider for half a year, and here we don't have it, and even more so on consoles, they released a patch where they give an Assault power sword, but it does not play the effects during the Power Rake. Heavy, carrying a heavy bolt rifle by a non-existent handle. Just a lazy approach. Performance degradation, game was better at launch. With this approach it is very questionable what they will be able to do with SM3. They just don't have quality control. Every patch breaks something. Horde mode will be bugged to the max with bad optimization mark my words

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nikof135 wrote:

​ Performance degradation, game was better at launch. 

I don't know about this Brother.:D

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Kith wrote:

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Slitth wrote:

The only problem with going with "what the fans want" is that fans do not know what they want and/or you only get feedback from a small potion of the players.

Nah. Customers know exactly what they want and pretending that they don't is how you get into situations like these. Treating your audience like a bunch of foolish rubes is what makes people hate developers despite loving the products that they put out.

Slitth wrote:

For example, I don't like that you can be the same class in the operations.

But I also know that changing that is not as easy as the mods makes it look.

No, it's exactly that easy. Voice lines are not a critical component of gameplay, and it's not like the developer no longer has access to the VAs in question (see: new lines being added for the Trygon operation). Alternatively, if Saber doesn't want to shell out for new recording sessions, they can just switch to the multiplayer lines in the event of class stacking.

You don't need to make excuses for a product's failings. SM2 could be better and it's not, and customers are allowed to be unsatisfied by that (especially when mods showcase how easily things could be better and how much fun it would be if they were).

So you don't think immersive gameplay is a critical component? Because that what voice lines are in there for.

And I think removing them would lessen the game, perhaps some would agree with me on that.

And yes, they could add more voice lines to game, to allow character to switch class or the like.

But is that the best use of the developers time and money?

Would player like a new operation more that having no class restrictions? 

Every thing, even the most simple things takes time, money and effort.

And I have this in mind when addressing product's failings, so I focus on that I would like to see changed first.

Like stable matchmaking. 

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Slitth wrote:

So you don't think immersive gameplay is a critical component? Because that what voice lines are in there for.

And I think removing them would lessen the game, perhaps some would agree with me on that.

And yes, they could add more voice lines to game, to allow character to switch class or the like.

But is that the best use of the developers time and money?

Would player like a new operation more that having no class restrictions? 

Every thing, even the most simple things takes time, money and effort.

And I have this in mind when addressing product's failings, so I focus on that I would like to see changed first.

Like stable matchmaking. 

The majority of the audience cares about being a Space Marine and brutally ripping apart the enemies of humanity with the finest arms and armor of the Imperium, which can be done without witty dialogue. While the voice lines are immersive in their own way, their overall contribution to the experience is negligible - especially once you start hearing the same lines repeatedly.

I generally don't like telling people that they don't have any idea what they're talking about because it feels rude, but in this case... you really have no idea what you're talking about, bud. A framework change like being able to stack classes in Operations has absolutely nothing to do with the level design and scripting that goes into creating a new Operation; those tasks would be assigned to different teams. Network stability and improved matchmaking are also separate from those, and all of these things can be worked on simultaneously by different departments. That's the point of establishing a studio: delegating work to the specialists so you're not bogging down the project with general labor requests.

The moral of the story is that these things could be done with little cost and with no impact to other areas of development.

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Slitth wrote:

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Kith wrote:

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Slitth wrote:

The only problem with going with "what the fans want" is that fans do not know what they want and/or you only get feedback from a small potion of the players.

Nah. Customers know exactly what they want and pretending that they don't is how you get into situations like these. Treating your audience like a bunch of foolish rubes is what makes people hate developers despite loving the products that they put out.

Slitth wrote:

For example, I don't like that you can be the same class in the operations.

But I also know that changing that is not as easy as the mods makes it look.

No, it's exactly that easy. Voice lines are not a critical component of gameplay, and it's not like the developer no longer has access to the VAs in question (see: new lines being added for the Trygon operation). Alternatively, if Saber doesn't want to shell out for new recording sessions, they can just switch to the multiplayer lines in the event of class stacking.

You don't need to make excuses for a product's failings. SM2 could be better and it's not, and customers are allowed to be unsatisfied by that (especially when mods showcase how easily things could be better and how much fun it would be if they were).

So you don't think immersive gameplay is a critical component? Because that what voice lines are in there for.

And I think removing them would lessen the game, perhaps some would agree with me on that.

And yes, they could add more voice lines to game, to allow character to switch class or the like.

But is that the best use of the developers time and money?

Would player like a new operation more that having no class restrictions? 

Every thing, even the most simple things takes time, money and effort.

And I have this in mind when addressing product's failings, so I focus on that I would like to see changed first.

Like stable matchmaking. 

If the operations were that important, then they would have used the character names in the operations and not class names. It's a copout, we would have all been Ultramarines and that would have been the end of it. As it stands, it's half a job. They want to give you freedom, but not total freedom, because that's too much work.

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Chaplain_willem wrote:
After seeing the latest astartes mod update I just feel bitter and disappointed in general don't get me wrong I'm glad you guys gave the modders the freedom to create all of it but would've been better if the game was like this in the first place,  sorry if I ever offended the devs or was mean in most of my posts or comments, but I seriously can't go back to play the base game after seeing the amount of change the mod added to customizations and the game as a whole, playing the base game now feels like playing a beta build tbh , and I want the devs to know (if they're reading this) that the way you treated space marine 2 will affect how I and other players will approach space marine 3 this include me not preordering or considering getting a season pass unless the choices that were made in SM2 were to be changed to fit a better overall experience, laziness and greed is not a good path to take and don't get cocky with your success its very easy to lose the fans trust if you're not paying enough attention
that being said goodbye to all my battle brothers here and hopefully horde mode turns out to be good like we expect it to be xD
the emperor forgets.

​I agree with your opinion. 

After playing for 1,167 hours, the choice I regret the most is purchasing the Ultra Edition. 

At the time of purchase, I believed the developers would be able to fulfill the fans' dreams. 

But the result was constant nerfs and the release of frustrating new enemies. 

There are still unresolved bugs related to Assault skills, and we still can't equip cloaks on all classes just because of the so called "sniper identity."

While playing with mods, I was able to wear amazing skins, the Iron Halo, and even cloaks. 

I could also use revamped weapons and skills that made the game feel genuinely cool. 

Honestly, I hope the developers learn something by watching what the modders have accomplished.