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Invigorating Icon & Base Banner rework

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an hour ago
Feb 12, 2025, 5:43:47 PM

To properly balance Invigorating Icon without nerfing it to the ground I believe the Banner itself should also be reworked at the same time.

My suggestion is to make base (without any perks) Chapter Banner regenerate up to 45% of max hp in contested health over time and stop contested health deterioration. The regeneration rate could be 5%/s, so you'd have to stay in the area of the banner for 9 seconds to get full 45% max hp in contested health. This synergizes perfectly with current armour over time regeneration and the overall theme of the Chapter Banner - Stay together and FIGHT, Marines, FOR THE EMPEROR!. This effect could also synergize with the 300% increased armor regen perk, boosting the cHP regen to 20%/s (still up to 45% per ability cast)

Then, the Invigorating Icon perk could instantly regenerate 35% max hp in contested health upon casting the ability (same amount as Stims). It will still be a very strong perk, offering a healing equivalent to one stim, and it wouldn't need any cooldown nerfs at all. If it feels underwhelming, the % could be boosted.

The total healing would be 80% of max hp if you take the perk (down from 100%, as it's just too strong compared to other healing sources in game, but the % could be easily adjusted to balance the strength of both ability and the perk) 

The perk in the same column could be then changed to provide a more meaningful choice when picking between them and the Icon. The perks I would suggest adding are:
A) -20% cooldown for the Banner, B) The banner heals wounds on cast if you're full HP, but regenerates 15% less contested health (30% of max hp).

What are the benefits of this approach?

1. The healing mechanic would be a part of the Bulwark's kit from level 1, so new players will be able to learn how to play with it and utilize it properly, instead of being introduced to healing with banner at level 23 (if they take the perk)

2. The game will no longer force us to take Invigorating Icon to have healing on the Banner. This will allow for more varied builds, and not taking Invigorating Icon will no longer feel as if you just lost one of your main and most important tools on Bulwark, because even if YOU as the one playing the Bulwark feel that you don't need this perk, your allies will surely expect you to have it and pressure you in case you don't take it. The new perks would further increase the viability of alternate builds.

3. This will make the ability and the perk easily balanceable by adjusting cHP%

4. This change will be more forgiving for all players, as you won't need to be in the AOE when casting to regenerate the base 45% max hp in chp.

5. This change will let you sustain your contested hp for the duration of the banner, meaning you have a more forgiving window of opportunity to make use of it, even if someone takes the finisher kill from you that you wanted to regen your health with.

6. This will change how and when the banner is used. The players will no longer feel pressured to hold off on using the banner until someone is low hp in their team, they will be able to use it much more proactively in more varied situations.  

Updated 3 minutes ago.
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an hour ago
Feb 12, 2025, 5:59:51 PM
I don't even think 100% contested HP over the full duration is broken, especially if you're spending a perk point to get there.
I do agree wholeheartedly that having a baseline "Rally" mechanic to the banner, supplying contested HP over time, will fix a lot of problems.  It'll fix the "pop banner at the end of the fight" perverse incentive, it'll allow new bulwark players to get used to keeping an eye on allies' health bars when planning ability use - whether they meant it to or not, the sheer scarcity of healing in this game means that the ability to heal becomes a core mechanic of every class that can get it.  I agree with leaning into that and making a portion of it mechanically baseline, as well as conceptually.
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an hour ago
Feb 12, 2025, 6:07:55 PM

This is really touching on a piece of game design philosophy that I believe in firmly: if something is "meta," and continues to be "meta" even when alternatives are made better or it is made worse, that means it's filling an essential niche.

If something is filling an essential niche, that means that at least some aspect of it should probably be made baseline.


Blizzard has made a ton of mistakes, but they had this philosophy for Heroes of the Storm until they stopped supporting it entirely, and it was tremendously good for the game.

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an hour ago
Feb 12, 2025, 6:15:00 PM

Fenrir4life wrote:
I don't even think 100% contested HP over the full duration is broken, especially if you're spending a perk point to get there.

I think that the suggestion for perk A "20% CDR" could be changed to "Banner can restore up to full hp in contested health" to fit your idea.
Still, thank you kindly for a warm response.

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15 minutes ago
Feb 12, 2025, 6:53:58 PM

Changing the banner so that it grants 5% contested health per second up to 50% total health by default would definitely help break away from the play style of only using that perk and only using it right before executes.


Fenrir4life wrote:
I don't even think 100% contested HP over the full duration is broken, especially if you're spending a perk point to get there.

Adding onto this, if the perk was changed to to only granting 50% contested health immediately it would be less mandatory while still maintain the banner into execute combo playstyle. A player could then stay near the banner to recover the remaining 50% over time. This would keep the perk being incredibly useful while also allowing other perks to compete.

Updated 14 minutes ago.
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13 minutes ago
Feb 12, 2025, 6:56:03 PM

i had a similar idea for a rework . but only to an extent to try and get away as a Bulwark as a walking stem .. 
link provided below 

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/8463-bulwark-banner-revision?page=1

​Honestly, (Playing a Bulwark Exclusively) 
I think they need to remove the contested health heal Perk altogether. I have said since this game came out . the Bulwark is not and Apothecary, let that class have the heals and swap out the heals for more armor in stead. like my previous response use the bulwark for what they are, an 'Over shield.' 
 
Bulwarks are not healers, we are our brothers Shields... 
This Has Perpetuate Some META for people expecting bulwarks to keep certain perks to make them a walking stem kits, this would be a wrong direction, expected to be a healer. But with the contested health as it is now there is a chance to be a self healer. i think they need to have more heal options away from the banner, or change it ALL-TO-GETHER; So that when you drop the banner your kills have a chance to give you more armor to make every one glow with the Emperors light and you huddle together, killing and everyone is just regenerating armor, every one gets the 5th armor PIP as long as the Banner is there and you are close enough.  As your armor gets depleted and goes down with damage; every kill regens that armor pip or partial one; as the Bulwark helps his Squad 'Become' a large Un-Relenting wall that the 'Nids crash against.



 ( I like the armor idea better as it more fits with the theme; with the shield of the emperor; the emperor light; and the armor is just a buffer for the health system as a whole, like the shield is a buffer for the bulwark and the bulwark shields his brothers. This only furthers that rolling theme.. )

PPS- cause other wise when the Apothecary does come out like they want. That one class will single handedly make the bulwark current META for walking stim pack obsolete and they will need to tweak this class AGAIN..  why not get rid of it now and help be a shield for when the Apothecary is ready to come out and be a true healer and not rely on contested chances.. ????


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