Add librarian and chaplain as playable classes

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fuji996 wrote:

librarians are simply too powerful to be a playable class. any neutered version made for pve or pvp would be painfully bland or feel exceptionally weak. the marines in SM2 are not named characters, specializations like chaplain and apothecary fit perfectly for these support roles. Terminators while super cool, would fulfill the same roll as the heavy already does Each of these classes are made with a role and dynamic with the others in mind. 

Yeah, but all of the characters we play do have names. We can't have an apprentice Librarian? 

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ApothecaryVejovis wrote:

I believe apothecaries would be a great addition to the game!! Oat the very least apothecary cosmetics for the tactical as I’m aware how balancing for pvp would be a challenge in its self

I agree with you but I think it's doable.

I'd love to see classes like those in the librarian and chaplain. As well as Apothecary and techmarine.

we need a librarian/sorcerer first.

Most unique of the options and can be implemented fairly easily as all the stuff is already in game.

For apothecary, i'd say Primary and Melee only, reserve the pistol for the healing thing they have. The class ability would basically be a stim injector with 3-5 charges on a 120 second cooldown so you can heal teammates and remove mortal wounds (perhaps a class perk that reduces healing but can remove mortal wounds without healing to full). I'll think more on this and maybe update once i have a whole perk tree set up. 

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AdeptusFists wrote:
And a tech class! Tech marines or maybe just some form of adeptus mechanicus.

with a deployable tarantula turret, that would be massively helpful for the anti-wave defense

I would like to see the chaplain in gravis armour to have another tanky class please.

Idea for a maybe quicker realisation for a chaplain class, since it's base asset for the Astartes is already in the game: wouldn't he be the one with the "Banner" ability (restoring all allies' faith = shields)? So switching it from bulwark to the chaplain, maybe give the bulwark Titus' campaign ability (weakened though, or only the shields regeneration for himself).

As for the chaos "chaplain"/dark apostle: how about an adapted version of the thousand sons sorcerer (saw some nice mini conversions online)? Then again would also really love a word bearer dark apostle.

This brother laid out some ideas for playability for 4 class types, good balance ideas:

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas/3389-techmarine-apothecary-chaplain-and-librarian-class?page=1

I would absolutely Love to see a Librarian class. While facing some of the largest psychic threats known to man in the galaxy I feel like we need a Librarian to fortify our minds. 

Obviously force staves are a must. I would love to see force weapons that are basically variants of the power sword. I personally feel like a team ability would be amazing for them. Something in the vein of the Auspex that the Tactical gets. I feel like that is the only "team" ability next to the Bulwark's banner that we have. So maybe something that slows enemies in a certain area, and/or makes Rubric Marines stop from teleporting. 

I personally love when Psykers and the wizard archetype are framed as high DPS and support. So they would easily be a 2 armor class but can sort of fill the same role as a Bulwark. A spicy, warpy bulwark if you would. 

I second librarians. Would love to see some Psyker gameplay.

For librarian, make their primary weapon be a staff, and different staves would have different effects. Fulmination staff would allow you to cast smite, pyromancer staff fireball, etc. melee weapon would need to be a force weapon, and sidearm just the standard bolter, heavy bolter, or plasma options. likewise, you could tie the ability to the various staves as well. 

I would really like to see a Chaplain class in the game.

Apothecary would also be cool.

Tech Marine and Dreadnaught as well.

Apothecary's chaos counterpart may be an Emperor's Children apothecary​

In Dawn of War 2, Jonah the Librarian has access to a sweet ability called Temporal Displacement.

He teleports inside the physical space of an enemy unit, killing them instantly. I used this with great zeal in the Space Hulk missions where close quarters combat and elite Tyranids were best served by this devastating power.

The animation of emerging from a successful meat-splosion would be glorious to see. If it can't be made into a specific weapon ability, at least make it one of the execution animations.

Temporal Displacement. Thank you.

​​Fellow warriors of the Grimdark, I’m here to add my voice to the chorus of those calling for the introduction of the Librarian for the Adeptus Astartes and Dark Sorcerer for the forces of Chaos in Space Marine 2! The potential these psyker units bring to the battlefield is immense, and they could introduce incredible tactical depth to the game.

Librarian (Adeptus Astartes)

The Librarian could wield iconic psychic powers from the rich lore of Warhammer 40k. Here are some suggestions for the types of abilities that could be included:

• Smite: A direct psychic blast that sends out a bolt of destructive energy, devastating single targets or even groups of enemies.
• Psychic Fortress: Erect a psychic barrier that protects nearby allies from ranged and psychic attacks. Perfect for holding a defensive line.
• Veil of Time: Temporarily accelerate the movements of friendly units, allowing them to react faster in combat, or even dodge incoming attacks.
• Fury of the Ancients: A beam of pure psychic energy that scorches everything in its path, tearing through enemy ranks​(Bell of Lost Souls).
• Null Zone: Weaken the psychic defenses of nearby enemies, making them vulnerable to both psychic and physical attacks​(Bell of Lost Souls).

Each Chapter could also have specialized Librarians with unique powers:

• Rune Priests (Space Wolves) could summon the power of Fenris, unleashing ice storms or calling on the spirits of the wild.
• Stormseers (White Scars) could control the weather, summoning lightning strikes to crush enemies​(Bell of Lost Souls).

for the Chaos Sorcerer:

• Doom Bolt: Launch a bolt of concentrated warp energy, causing devastating explosions and wreaking havoc on enemy ranks. Perfect for disrupting formations and dealing heavy damage​(Lexicanum).
• Warp Time: Bend the fabric of time itself, granting Chaos units faster movement and quicker reactions in combat, allowing them to outmaneuver their enemies or close the distance for a devastating strike​(Lexicanum).
• Teleportation: Tear open a rift in reality, allowing the Dark Sorcerer and their allies to instantly transport themselves across the battlefield. A game-changing ability that could allow Chaos forces to strike from unexpected angles or escape danger in the blink of an eye.
• Infernal Gateway: Summon a vortex of pure Warp energy that pulls in and disintegrates anything caught in its grasp, wreaking havoc on enemy lines​(Lexicanum).
• Death Hex: Curse enemy units, stripping them of their psychic protections and leaving them vulnerable to both physical and psychic assaults. A deadly debuff to tip the scales in battle​(Lexicanum).

The visual potential is immense: swirling warp energy, dark portals opening across the battlefield, and devastating bolts of chaos energy crashing into Imperial forces. The Dark Sorcerer would add an exciting new dimension to Chaos gameplay, combining offensive might with tactical support through manipulation of time and space.

​​Fellow warriors of the Grimdark, I’m here to add my voice to the chorus of those calling for the introduction of the Librarian for the Adeptus Astartes and Dark Sorcerer for the forces of Chaos in Space Marine 2! The potential these psyker units bring to the battlefield is immense, and they could introduce incredible tactical depth to the game.

Librarian (Adeptus Astartes)

The Librarian could wield iconic psychic powers from the rich lore of Warhammer 40k. Here are some suggestions for the types of abilities that could be included:

• Smite: A direct psychic blast that sends out a bolt of destructive energy, devastating single targets or even groups of enemies.
• Psychic Fortress: Erect a psychic barrier that protects nearby allies from ranged and psychic attacks. Perfect for holding a defensive line.
• Veil of Time: Temporarily accelerate the movements of friendly units, allowing them to react faster in combat, or even dodge incoming attacks.
• Fury of the Ancients: A beam of pure psychic energy that scorches everything in its path, tearing through enemy ranks​(Bell of Lost Souls).
• Null Zone: Weaken the psychic defenses of nearby enemies, making them vulnerable to both psychic and physical attacks​(Bell of Lost Souls).

Each Chapter could also have specialized Librarians with unique powers:

• Rune Priests (Space Wolves) could summon the power of Fenris, unleashing ice storms or calling on the spirits of the wild.
• Stormseers (White Scars) could control the weather, summoning lightning strikes to crush enemies​(Bell of Lost Souls).

for the Chaos Sorcerer:

• Doom Bolt: Launch a bolt of concentrated warp energy, causing devastating explosions and wreaking havoc on enemy ranks. Perfect for disrupting formations and dealing heavy damage​(Lexicanum).
• Warp Time: Bend the fabric of time itself, granting Chaos units faster movement and quicker reactions in combat, allowing them to outmaneuver their enemies or close the distance for a devastating strike​(Lexicanum).
• Teleportation: Tear open a rift in reality, allowing the Dark Sorcerer and their allies to instantly transport themselves across the battlefield. A game-changing ability that could allow Chaos forces to strike from unexpected angles or escape danger in the blink of an eye.
• Infernal Gateway: Summon a vortex of pure Warp energy that pulls in and disintegrates anything caught in its grasp, wreaking havoc on enemy lines​(Lexicanum).
• Death Hex: Curse enemy units, stripping them of their psychic protections and leaving them vulnerable to both physical and psychic assaults. A deadly debuff to tip the scales in battle​(Lexicanum).

The visual potential is immense: swirling warp energy, dark portals opening across the battlefield, and devastating bolts of chaos energy crashing into Imperial forces. The Dark Sorcerer would add an exciting new dimension to Chaos gameplay, combining offensive might with tactical support through manipulation of time and space.

So after reviewing a bunch of the comments I feel like a combination of the ideas would be interesting. I feel like much of this could be accomplished with a psychic stamina bar. This would regulate all of the librarians abilities, so they could in turn have a lot of different builds for pve and could be playable but tunable if an ability turns out to be too good or too weak in pvp. This bar could have a slow regen rate and if used up you can still use the abilities but then it starts to pull from your HP at a rapid rate. The key for pvp is to make this a high risk high reward class; have useful abilities that offer a lot on the battlefield, but if used improperly will be fatal, so I imagine the psychic bar usage tax in pvp would be much higher than in pve. The key for pve could be to have the psychic bar regenerate at a very slow rate which increases as you deal damage to enemies. This would reward players for being aggressive and would prevent people from camping in between combats because they would risk another wave coming.

This is my take on how to apply this:

Armor Class: 2

Primary Weapon: Smite/Doom Bolt ability- operates similarly to the plasma type guns where it’s a charge up attack however it doesn’t have drop like plasma guns and could have less overall damage. (As a side note it would be sick if this had different “skins” that could be a part of the chapter specific cosmetic packs to represent different abilities to make a more immersive experience like blood lance for the blood angels, lightning, fire, etc)

Secondary: Bolt Pistol

Melee: Force Weapon- this could be a force sword/ axe/ staff or something like that but it has similar traits as the power sword only it’s “activated” state takes from the psychic bar and makes it deal more damage or something else at a cost of draining the bar 

Ability: this is the main part I struggle with because there are so many abilities that librarians have that’s it’s difficult to nail down just one. However this could work to its benefit where they can have a tap option to maybe offer a forward boost like the assault class but only forward and holding the button down while targeting an enemy will pull them towards you similar to the vanguard. I also think it would be nice team for play to have a shield like the bulwark but it is only active while holding the block button and you move slower like the heavy when he is aiming, you cannot dodge, and it rapidly drains the psychic bar. For pve balancing these abilities would have drastically use up the psychic bar to prevent this class from being able to literally do anything at a moments notice. 

Grenades: none

General thoughts: Librarians are in it if themselves Swiss army knives so having many abilities at their disposal would make them feel powerful and lore accurate if used well but punishing if not. Asset management with this build becomes name of the game, which would likely make it a difficult class to master. Using their warp abilities comes at a cost but gives them a lot of latitude on the battlefield. I imagine this class being able to answer the teams needs on a moments notice, provided they are conserving their warp abilities for the right moment but not being so conservative that they offer little to each engagement. Hope others like this idea, for what it’s worth I at least had fun with this thought experiment.