I had somewhat expected interesting choices and a way to do sub classes without reworking too much. Like a perk that allows the Assault to take an ABR, or the Bulwark forgoing his shield to instead bring a two handed weapon of sorts. Something that actually has weight to the choice and allows for the class to be played much differently (but still somewhat in line with both the codex and tabletop rules) rather than just stat increases that, while welcome, don't make X class more interesting.

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Tranchoir wrote:
There are some good ideas , some a bit tad OP, but it feels more themed. 

Ya, it's hard to hone in on the numbers and interplay when you're spitballing ideas.  The goal was an idea of a framework and creating perks that really enhance the way a class can play - and be thematic. 

So, much appreciated.

while the forums aren't for creating ideas of your own, I can definitely agree with the thought of wanting changes to these, cause while some are incredibly strong many are super weak or underwhelming such as increased melee damage and no staggering for heavy? and the seemingly pointless on pickup of X item you get % ability charge back

Great read! I really like many of the suggested reworks and additions - especially the names you've given them. Also, thank you for including my suggestions for Assault prestige perks in your post - and even more so for crediting me. Much appreciated, battle brother.

Hire this man.

Ideas not bad but I can hardly imagine amount of additional code work to implement even 50% of it. Still I would really appreciate having more perks to pick up from ensuring more variety in overall gameplay. 

As of now Sniper and Heavy Prestige perks really need massive rework. I mean... it's a joke to have 4 of 7 Heavy Prestige perks bound to Melee. Are you serious? 😂
Sniper also does not provide anything of use so far. It's just like you pick one or two useful perks and then fill in the rest with random ones. 
On the other side Bulwark and others seems more or less ok.

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BrotherUlfar wrote:

I was asked to move my thread here to get developer eyes on it - so here it is.

I am largely underwhelmed by the prestige perk system.  It is such a great concept, but it is let down by execution.  There are likely 5 perks across all the different classes that are even remotely interesting - and I find that disheartening.  

That said, to me, prestige perks don't need to be higher numbers, OP or flip the switch to easy mode - but they should offer significant gameplay tweaks and new ways to truly play your character. 

Now, rather than just complain - I wanted to list out what I would consider interesting perks.  I whipped these together - so the numbers aren't concrete but just an example of what it should do.  Plus, there are some interactions that would need to be thought out and mitigated, but overall I think this is the direction I would go.

Also, I tried to add more than 7 per class - that way if one sucked or was OP regardless of tweaks - it could easily be removed.  Or maybe just have more options for build diversity? 

​ASSAULT

GOAL: Address Assault's weakness - which is sustainability - by enhancing two different playstyles.  1) An aggressive playstyle that helps the Assault’s contested health and gives them a way to recoup health over time.  2) A very mobile playstyle that helps the Assault stay alive by making him harder to hit.  

Aerial & Mobility Perks

·      Angelus Momentum: Jump Pack Dash is reduced to 25-50% of a charge (should be base kit).

·      Wings of the Emperor: Jump Pack Dash has an additional 75% window to perfect dodge.

·      Meteoric Charge: New ability to use Jump Pack Dash that can hit grounded and airborne units with a shoulder charge.

·      Lucius Pattern Evasion: Jet pack dodge can animation cancel.

Combat & Durability Perks

·      Indomitable Wrath: Contested health does not decrease while charging an attack (airborne or ground). 

·      Aegis of the Astartes: Gain an armour segment on a perfect dodge (from Rot_MKI)

·      Promethium Accelerant: A 10% ability recharge on perfect dodge (from Rot_MKI)

·      Iron Zeal: Damage taken while sprinting or using the jump pack is reduced 20%.

·      The Champion’s Defense: Perfect Parry and Block window increased by 25%.

·      Martial Celerity: Time to charge an attack decreases by 10-15%. (from Rot_MKI)

·      Astartes Vitalis: Melee attacks increase contested health recovery by 15%.

AoE & Ground Pound Perks

·      Terra’s Judgement: Jump pack slams slow all enemies 10m outside the impact zone for 3s. 

·      Tectonic Purge: Every enemy hit by ground pound gives 1% contested health to the Assault.

·      The Chapter’s Fury: Small AoE stagger to minoris enemies on melee hits.

·      Emperor’s Shockwave: When surrounded by 5+ enemies, all AoE effect radius’ is increased by 20%.

·      Cataclysmic Retribution: Ground Pounds after an Execution have an increased radius of 30%.

·      Thunderous Disruption: Ground Pounds temporarily disrupt ranged weapons and abilities for 5s (including enraged enemies).

​BULWARK

GOAL: The issue that seems to exist with Bulwark is that the Banner is being used outside of actual combat - which ruins the thematic element and concept.  The goal here is to make the banner more usable as a per or mid-combat rallying point as opposed to requiring it to be a one-time heal on execution.  

Banner Influence & Duration Perks

·      Imperial Eminence: Range of banner increased by 25%.

·      Enduring Allegiance: Banner duration increased by 2% for minoris kills and 5% for majoris+.

·      Oath of Duty: For every majoris kill while banner is active, the recharge for the next banner deployment is reduced 10%. 

Healing & Resource Regen Perks

·      Aegis of the Honored: While banner is active, players inside banner range heal 1% for every kill. 

·      Sacred Resurgence: While banner is active, players inside the banner have abilities regenerate 2% for minoris a 5% for other kill.

·      Omnissiah's Blessing: While banner is active, players regain ammunition at 1% for every 2 seconds (does not apply to grenades).

Defensive & Resistance Perks

·      Unyielding Bastion: While banner is active, players inside the banner are immune to being knocked back.

·      The Primarch’s Champion: While banner is active, Bulwark’s damage is increased 10% and incoming damage is decreased by 10% for every brother within range.

·      Chapter’s Vigil: Enemies inside the banner’s influence are unable to become enraged, call reinforcements and are unable to perform unblockable attacks. 

·      Litany of Protection: Within the banner’s influence players have a 50% increased parry/block window.

Tactical & Utility Perks

·      Fenris’ Breath: While banner is active, weapons overheat 50% slower.

·      Eternal Duty: While banner is active, duration abilities deplete 10% slower.

HEAVY

Goal: Lean into the Iron Halo and giving ways to sustain ranged damage through keeping it active.  

​Iron Halo Defensive Perks

·      Aegis Adamantus: Iron Halo reduces melee damage by 50%.

·      Unshaken Bastion: Iron Halo prevents stagger on the Heavy.

·      Emperor’s Grace: While Iron Halo is active, perfect parry window is increased by 75%.  

·      Lex Invictus: While Iron Halo is active, unblockable attacks are able to be parried.

Iron Halo Offensive Perks

·      Faith’s Regeneration: Iron Halo duration and strength is increased by 2% for every enemy kill.

·      Oath of Supply: While Iron Halo is active, Majoris kills from any team member replenish 3% of active weapon’s ammunition.

·      Sanctified Arsenal: While Iron Halo is active, weapons overheat 30% slower.

·      Gladius Infernus: While Iron Halo is active, heavy is able to fire 25% faster.

Ultimate Halo Expenditure

·     Judgement of the Omnissiah: While Iron Halo is at full capacity, holding the trigger rather than activating the ability will release a small melta bomb and replenish 10% of ammunition to primary weapon of all teammates but will deplete the Halo and it will charge 200% slower until full.

VANGUARD

GOAL: Vanguard is tough as they seem to be the master class that can do a little of everything.  Plus, I think they had the best options on the prestige tree to begin with, so I would take several of those along.   I would lean into an aggression playstyle which matches Decimus’ personality with a heavy focus on the Grapnel Launcher.

Movement & Melee Speed Perks

·      Celestial Momentum: After Grapnel, the Vanguard’s movement and melee attacks are 20% faster for 8s.  

·      Exemplar’s Fury: On execution, Vanguard’s movement and melee speed is increased by 20% (to a maximum of 20%) for 8s.

·      Celeritas Imperium: On every successful attack, Vanguard’s movement and speed is increased by 1% to a maximum of 20% for 8s.

·      Forged Brotherhood: 30% of all movement and speed bonuses are shared with squad. 

Grapnel Launcher Perks

·      Eviscerator’s Reach: Successful Grapnel Launcher usage has a 35% chance of not consuming a charge.

·      Ascendant Recoil: After Grapnel, enemies within 5m have their armor fractured and take 20% more damage from all sources.  

·      Warden’s Resurgence: Successful Grapnel to an enraged enemy or enemy calling for reinforcements will immediately execute it and restore 30% of charge.

·      Launch Restoration: Using the Grapnel Launcher restores 1 armor segment.

Wargear Perks

·      Battlefield Awareness: If a target is within 8 meters, you deal 20% more ranged damage.

·      Well Equipped: Equipment Damage increases by 20%.

SNIPER

GOAL: Sniper is another tough one because he is currently extremely effective and the perks weren’t terrible.  I would try to make the goal of the prestige perks to give new ways to how he plays with the camo cloak. 

Camo Cloak & Enemy Interference Perks

·      Revelatio Umbra: While Camo Cloak is active, enemies headshot by the Sniper are highlighted and they are unable to make unblockable attacks.

·      Vox Silentium: Enemies hit by the sniper are suppressed – making them 10% slower and unable to call in backup.  

·      Veil of the Unseen: While Camo Cloak is active, enemies within 10m have their ranged accuracy reduced.

·      Mirage of the Emperor: When Camo Cloak deactivates, Sniper leaves a holographic decoy in place that draws enemy aggro.  

Support and Team Utility Perks

·      Embrace of the Silent Watcher: Friendly players within 10m of a Sniper’s headshot gain 10% damage reduction (20% if from Camo).

·      Veil of Shadows: Camo cloak no longer deactivates immediately on ranged attacks, but rather is reduced by 20% for each shot. Headshot kills while in this mode will refund 20%.

·      Phantom’s Embrace: Sniper can now hold the Camo Cloak activation and all team members within 10m are cloaked.  Active usage is increased by 50% for each additional member cloaked.  Melee or ranged attacks break the cloak but do 30% more damage.

Tactical Advantage Perks

·      Fury of the Watcher: For every second an enemy is in the reticle without firing, the damage of the next shot is increased by 15% to a maximum of 100%.

·      Over-Penetration: All shots that are zoomed in will now pass through cover.  

·      Vigil’s Reward: Attacks from enemies that cannot “see” the Sniper have a 50% chance to refund the shot.

TACTICAL

GOAL: Another hard class since they are already solid.  However, the thought here was to focus on the idea that this is the traditional Space Marine Captain and Team Player.  They excel with a bolter and have variety in their skill expression of their bolter skills.  This is likely the class with the biggest gaps and OP-ness.

​Auspex & Tactical Awareness

·      Oculus Fidei: The Auspex radius is increased 20%.

·      Second Look: If no enemy is marked by the time the Auspex scan ends, the ability is refunded.

·      Sensus Praetoris: Non-Terminus enemies who remain in the Auspex detection range for more than 3s are permanently marked.

·      Stasis of the Void: Enemies detected by the Auspex have their abilities disrupted.  During this time, things like Chaos Marines cannot teleport, Lictors cannot go into stealth, Raveners cannot tunnel, Terminators cannot launch rockets, etc. Terminus enemies are slowed by 20%.

·      Lucius Pattern Suppression: Enemies within 15m radius of the Auspex scan have their movement speed reduced and their ranged accuracy decreased.

·      Emperor’s Sight: Allied units within a 10m radius of the Tactical Marine while the Auspex is active will mark every unmarked enemy that they hit.

·      Sustained Analysis: Killing an enemy that is marked with the Auspex extends the Auspex up time by 5%.

·      Rites of the Reload: Reloading any weapon decreases cooldown on the Auspex by 2% for every second spent reloading.

Bolter & Ranged Combat Perks

·      Mass Reactive Payload: Bolter rounds have a 30% chance of a critical hit which causes an AoE explosion that does minor damage and staggers nearby minoris enemies.  Kills have 100% chance for explosion and a 50% chance to explode for large damage. 

·      Bolter’s Fury: While aiming down sights with a bolter, the player deals 5% more damage for each consecutive shot on the same target for 6 seconds.  

·      Suppressive Aura: Sustained fire from the tactical reduces enemy accuracy in a 5m radius around the enemy.

·      Bolter Discipline: Sustained fire with the Bolter increases accuracy and fire rate by 2% per shot, stacking up to 20%. The bonus resets if the Marine stops firing for more than 1.5 seconds.

·      Wrathful Calibration: Holding fire for at least 2s increases Bolter damage by 10% until firing stops.

·      Storm of Retribution: Landing 3 headshots in rapid succession increases Bolter fire rate by 15% for 8s.

·      Big Guns Never Tire: Enemies within 8m take an additional 10% ranged damage (20% if it’s a bolter).

·      Hazardous Shot: The player can overcharge a plasma shot, for a 50% chance to do 200% damage and 50% chance to do 250% damage but risks 25% hit to health.

·      Holy Wrath Magazines: Reload speed increases by 10% per enemy within 5m up to 40%.

·      Grav-Stabilized Mounting: Can move and fire at increased speed and accuracy.

Survivability & Team Support Perks

·      Second Wind: After being downed, the player can perform a self-revive after 5s at the cost of 25% health. 

·      Echo of the Emperor: For every squad member within a 10m radius of the Tactical, the marines receive a 5% damage reduction.  

·      Combat Liason: When within 5m an ally, the marine provides an additional 10% health regeneration bonus to all sources (including contested health).

·      Tactical Rally: Squad members activating an ability within 10m of the tactical will give the tactical an additional 5% damage bonus for 8s.

Explosives & Close Quarter Perks

·      Explosive Force: Grenades have 10% increased radius and deal 10% more damage.

·      Grenadier’s Discipline: When using grenades, Tactical marines have 50% increased range and can store 1 additional grenade.

·      Storm Treader: After sprinting for 10m, the Tactical’s next melee attack deals AoE damage akin to Adrenaline Surge.

So while I like some of these a lot, the exact numbers shouldn't be adopted directly for sure.
as a concept they're nice though.

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Gary_The_Metro wrote:

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So while I like some of these a lot, the exact numbers shouldn't be adopted directly for sure.
as a concept they're nice though.

Ya, I think I called that out.  The goal was to create a placeholder of ideas - and it gets really confusing to read "Give % damage for x seconds" - so I filled it in with some placeholder numbers.  Some good, some probably outrageous when combined with other things. 

The drive was to show the framework upon which the classes themselves could be dramatically changed and become more unique - just based on the perks you choose. 

Like Vanguard - you could go the speed route or maybe make the Grapnel a serious threat?  Are you buffed for just yourself or did you spend a perk on being more team oriented? 

I wanted to provide options in how you might want to play - and give someone pause to think through builds and actually have a diverse crew of playstyles for each class.

Both your concepts and your writing are fantastic. Guilliman would assuredly amend the codex in light of this wisdom.

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Rot_MKI wrote:

Great read! I really like many of the suggested reworks and additions - especially the names you've given them. Also, thank you for including my suggestions for Assault prestige perks in your post - and even more so for crediting me. Much appreciated, battle brother.

My pleasure.  They were simple and awesome suggestions.