Now, im not being over the top but i just started a game, tried to go into a wave of enemies and just do some mindless melee and no, i lost all my health instantly, from full to 40% instantly.. armour did nothing

then i realized that to get my health back ill need to scour the walls and floors of every area to find a health pack to get back 30% and thats IF i decide to parry roll shoot my way through combat to find health.. and then i just realized that its -this- again..

so no, im bored of the operations, and its not because 6 maps arent enough, the maps are fine, they arent boring to me yet.. its this dumb health/armour mechanic

contested health might as well not exist, and the same with armour, melee combos and any other class besides the heavy and bulwark

the devs need to fix the health armour system before they work on anything else because if it stays this bad, there wont be a playerbase hanging around to play any seasonal content.. 

im likely to play any other game at this point than go through the same string of events.. 

parry the minoris, parry the majoris, dodge the unblockables, reaction shot, repeat, execute, counter a jumper, dodge the shooting enemies, roll roll roll roll parry parry parry shoot shoot shoot, ok combat encounter over, lets act like a roomba and scour all the edges of every corner of every area to find a relic to survive better and health supplies, oh no a wave, repeat step one ad nauseum.. never to throw a melee attack, never to feel like a badass, just fear and panic and stress from start to finish.. 

a space marine elite soldier, dressed in heavy armour, using super powerful weapons, stronger, faster, smarter.. 

roll roll parry parry, run run roll parry run.. ughh 

as i said in my previous post, health regen on kill, and increase the armour usefullness by 10X 

and i swear if the apothecary class they bring in is their answer to the health concerns, im done.. 

the bulwark works because it fixes the armour issue slightly.. 

an apothecary class that can heal wont "fix" the core gameplay issue, it will just make another class the most useful and desirable and fixes nothing... suddenly you wont be able to do any missions without a bulwark and apothecary because the game is too dumb to make sense..

ive said before, i want to enjoy this game, i have spent 3 days nearly in game time playing it.. ive played it alot.. but this is now so glaringly big that i just cant play the game anymore BECAUSE of it.. please do something about it sooner rather than later, because you wont have an audience left if you leave it too late 

The time to replenish armor should be shorter. Maybe not as short as in PVP mode, but at least it should ensure players can hold their ground in battles for longer. PVE needs some serious reworking. I hope the developers don't bail and take the lazy route like they did with WWZ ​

You have 72 hours played in the first 7 days?  And you start by saying you want to go in for some mindless melee?  It isn't a mindless game.  I think they need to tune some things but I don't want melee to be brainless either. 

Yeah I agree, the Health needs a rework. There needs to be a way to regen health without stims.

Sorry to disagree, but please don't change that, i don't want the game to become easy, it force you to think before rush in, and the need to temporise, wich i find great actually.

Space marines are brute inside adamantium armor, yes, not mindless berseker, that game will be khorne marines if so !

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Daxx1610 wrote:
level the classes, many classes or weapons have perks that help with armor regain speed and general sustain. Block and dodge more and you will need less stim packs.

It is a skill based game, so skill up, and you will have less health issues.

You levelled Assault yet? that shit has 0 survivability til lvl 18.

I don't mind melee not being the option to massive hordes, but it really does suffer. I feel like armor is too fragile and all the ranged options outside of melta meme or snipers are mediocre in their role. 

I think the game relies too much on perks to fix everything. There's a hyper specific way to maintain everything in PvE, but it's so incredibly tight that it becomes unfun. I think the game suffers a bit from being developed in the Helldivers and Fromsoft era, where they think being a pain in the ass is what everyone wants.

The way this game works is not the same as SM1- the goal is to fight without ever losing HP. It's easier to do than you would think by using your very generous invincibility frames on dodge, and your ability to parry almost anything. As long as you don't get hit more than your armor can withstand you will not be damaged.

That being said, this is not really how Space Marines work. Their armor is actually very effective. Meaning this level of avoiding ever being hit is sort of not how it works in this universe.

The amount of armor should be massively increased. As well as a much shorter cooldown before your armor comes back, and a way to recover armor using a gun (enable ranged firefight) Gun strikes are de facto melee attacks because you must melee first.

A lethal head shot, particularly on an incapacitated enemy, could easily count as a gun strike even though you aimed it yourself rather than the auto-aim Gun Strike mechanic. That would be a reasonable place to start, but additional ways to get armor (and MORE armor recovery) are probably warranted as well.

Additionally there should be a way to recover a small amount of HP in combat. I actually like the skillful combat element of avoiding taking too much damage, rather than SM1 where you could tank anything short of completely fatal without a care as it was pretty easy to get back. This way in SM2 means you must always exercise finesse. But, conversely, if HP is too precious it discourages aggression. Especially when low, instead of being aggressive to get HP back, you are being very cautious in SM2. Therefore, a way to get a small amount of HP back such as from an execution, would be best. In addition to a large amount of armor back. This means if you fight well for a long period you will slowly recoup your HP lost to a mistake where you lose HP.

I also would like to see executions affect everyone nearby rather than just you. This should permanently address the "execution stealing" issue, since it actually does matter who gets the execution in a very short-term survival kind of way. The player with no armor really needs that execution and the one with full just stole it from them. Possibly even Vanguard Grapnel over at the last second after you've been whaling on that Chaos Marine 14 times and being damaged so your armor is now gone.

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FatherGoose wrote:

You have 72 hours played in the first 7 days?  And you start by saying you want to go in for some mindless melee?  It isn't a mindless game.  I think they need to tune some things but I don't want melee to be brainless either. 

its more that i wanted to have some fun with the melee, so i just went in to do some attacks and was immediately punished like im playing competitive For Honor, and the realization that im just forced to one passive defensive playstyle over and over again just drained all of the fun out of the game for me.. i just left the operation entirely and turned the game off.. like, no game should make you feel that disheartened to play the game purely because of the awful health armour system

I play heavy and in melee i suck but ranged wotks well just need to gocus on ur role and learn the mechanics i find this plays more like a dark souls game and it works yes its frustrating but when u get it right it works 

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Daxx1610 wrote:
level the classes, many classes or weapons have perks that help with armor regain speed and general sustain. Block and dodge more and you will need less stim packs.
It is a skill based game, so skill up, and you will have less health issues.

im a level 20 tactical with the final upgrades on my bolter rifle, pistol and chainsword, with nearly all of the perks available on those weapons... the "kills make armour come back 0.5 seconds sooner" doesnt really chip into the default 25 second armour recharge wait and the only real "regain health" stuff is things like "when under 30% health, regain 5% health after getting 10 rapid kills" or "get contested health back 100% faster" but that is useless when enemies take 3 melee hits to drop.. and thats just the minoris and thats IF you can land any attacks besides parrying...

if the "skill" you refer to is gameplay crutching where you utilize the invincibility you get from executions to ignore damage and get an armour segment back, the parrying to cheaply protect yourself while killing minoris, the armour from catching jumpers, the reaction shots allowing you to retaliate slightly.. then the gameplay "skill" is as i have complained about before.. passive For Honor defensive stanced parrying constantly and rolling constantly.. this "skill" negates the rest of the "gameplay" because you cant do any of it.. 

in its current state, you could remove the means of attacking with melee and nothing would change, you could take out armour and contested health too and nothing would change.. 

its simply awful, and though it appeals to some, im seeing alot of people complain about the health and armour too, people are falling off the game hard and if this isnt addressed, they wont be comming back.,.. 

and just like For Honor, the playerbase will lose all of its fans until only the most elite guitar hero.. i mean "skilled" players remain.. 

the gameplay right now is watching for minions to attack and parrying, watching for a blue marker and parrying or rolling, watching for an orange marker, and rolling, rolling out of ranged attacks, rolling to escape AOEs, rolling to avoid getting surrounded, shooting sometimes and just repeating the parrying and rolling until its done.. that isnt gameplay.. the game is supposed to be a 3rd person melee shooter and its currently just a DDR game with more gore..

and trust me, i knew the "git gud" ones will come, kindly spare me 

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pureskunk wrote:

Sorry to disagree, but please don't change that, i don't want the game to become easy, it force you to think before rush in, and the need to temporise, wich i find great actually.

Space marines are brute inside adamantium armor, yes, not mindless berseker, that game will be khorne marines if so !

the game wont become easy if you can recover, it will only be more fair and fun..

you might enjoy the torture, but not everyone is YOU.. 

im not demanding that they make this game easy, like youre assuming i mean they should make it so you can heal through everything and march through enemies like theyre not there, im not asking for god mode.. 

im asking for their imperfect combat game to have some fairness by letting you recover some health for skilled play, allowing players to be alittle more aggressive.. as it stands right now, space marines are apparently known for running away, rolling around constantly and parrying constantly.. not shooting or trading hits.. just rolling, dying and parrying.. its so dumb

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syneticon wrote:

I don't mind melee not being the option to massive hordes, but it really does suffer. I feel like armor is too fragile and all the ranged options outside of melta meme or snipers are mediocre in their role. 

literally

the best ways of fighting the tanky hordes of minions is to overpower them with really really strong weapons.. which means that the SMG bolter, the bolt guns the bolt sniper rifle and the stalker guns all never get used because theyre terrible in comparrison.. why even have them in the game if theyre that useless? and thats my criticism, there is variety to the game, but it almost forces you into one playstyle, so you never get to experience that variety.. 

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PlagueOfGripes wrote:

I think the game relies too much on perks to fix everything. There's a hyper specific way to maintain everything in PvE, but it's so incredibly tight that it becomes unfun. I think the game suffers a bit from being developed in the Helldivers and Fromsoft era, where they think being a pain in the ass is what everyone wants.

the melee feels like ForHonor right now, and considering that fanbase is insane, its not great.. new players dont pick up For Honor and have fun, they meet the Feint spamming Shieva god of light heavy ultra combos and die before they even know what happening.. 

and the shooting is so unbalanced that they might as well give you infinite ammo.. you can take like 10 bullets before you suffer, they can take 10 full magazines before they even stagger.. one chaos dude took an entire mag of max level bolter while he was in an executable stance and STILL didnt go down.. 

i just think they had an idea for a game in their minds and it was a personal game idea, like a fanfic but a gameplay style, and they added it to this game without really considering if it suited the game..

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Kona82 wrote:

I play heavy and in melee i suck but ranged wotks well just need to gocus on ur role and learn the mechanics i find this plays more like a dark souls game and it works yes its frustrating but when u get it right it works 

the problem is, its a third person melee shooter game.. not dark souls.. and even in dark souls.. you can change your defence, level up your defence and you get sufficient healling.. 

this game, darksouls, it is not... 

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ledarsi wrote:

The way this game works is not the same as SM1- the goal is to fight without ever losing HP. It's easier to do than you would think by using your very generous invincibility frames on dodge, and your ability to parry almost anything. As long as you don't get hit more than your armor can withstand you will not be damaged.

That being said, this is not really how Space Marines work. Their armor is actually very effective. Meaning this level of avoiding ever being hit is sort of not how it works in this universe.

The amount of armor should be massively increased. As well as a much shorter cooldown before your armor comes back, and a way to recover armor using a gun (enable ranged firefight) Gun strikes are de facto melee attacks because you must melee first.

A lethal head shot, particularly on an incapacitated enemy, could easily count as a gun strike even though you aimed it yourself rather than the auto-aim Gun Strike mechanic. That would be a reasonable place to start, but additional ways to get armor (and MORE armor recovery) are probably warranted as well.

Additionally there should be a way to recover a small amount of HP in combat. I actually like the skillful combat element of avoiding taking too much damage, rather than SM1 where you could tank anything short of completely fatal without a care as it was pretty easy to get back. This way in SM2 means you must always exercise finesse. But, conversely, if HP is too precious it discourages aggression. Especially when low, instead of being aggressive to get HP back, you are being very cautious in SM2. Therefore, a way to get a small amount of HP back such as from an execution, would be best. In addition to a large amount of armor back. This means if you fight well for a long period you will slowly recoup your HP lost to a mistake where you lose HP.

I also would like to see executions affect everyone nearby rather than just you. This should permanently address the "execution stealing" issue, since it actually does matter who gets the execution in a very short-term survival kind of way. The player with no armor really needs that execution and the one with full just stole it from them. Possibly even Vanguard Grapnel over at the last second after you've been whaling on that Chaos Marine 14 times and being damaged so your armor is now gone.

Thats just the problem, to play this game where the AI is relentless and constant, you will always lose HP, and i agree, the point is to never take HP damage.. and thats where its completely flawed.. 

you spend less time doing melee combos and choosing how to fight because youre constantly having to parry or dodge, interrupting your attack to be on the defence.. and as a result you are always rolling around and parrying and exploiting the games mechanics to survive.. that isnt gameplay, thats game crutching.. when you cant play the game without depending on unintended mechanics that can be used to survive, its a bad game.. like, if they took out the invincibility on executing and instead make it so you can take damage and be staggered out of it, or they remove the parry.. it would be completely unplayable.. youd get half way through every mission and all die, every single time..

i agree with you, and with the armour, it should be easily 10X the strength it is now.. and thats only because 10X2 is still only 20.. it could easily be 30 or 40 and still not be enough with how fragile this armour is right now

and yes, ranged attacks should recover armour, that would be great and i agree with the aimed gun strike kill of an enemy should count as a gun strike..

and omg yes the execution stealing is a issue, the number of times an execution would have saved all my health but someone took it is absurd.. 

i suggested ideas for health regen, one being trace health regen on kills, proportionate to the enemy you kill or all attacks give health regen, but damage you take to your health reduces max hp that is only recoverable with a healing item, meaning you can go toe to toe with enemies and be aggressive but still be killable, rewarding skilful play and not expecting it

i also agree with your second reply, it would be amazing if you could choose your playstyle.. like how you have "block, balanced and fencing" types to the melee.. just only use fencing, block is a death sentance, balanced is pointless and fencing is the best means to attack while defending.. but they could make it so all melee weapons have the fencing type of guard but replace the block balance fencing with what you suggest, passive health regen, health regen on kills and more armour with no regen at all (maybe increased health from healling items and tiny ammounts of healling from picking up ammo or something) 

also, just a quick thank you to everyone replying, some are helpful, some not so helpful, but those who are being respectful and constructive are helping :) i appreciate it and i apologise if i come across crass and rude, i have a bad habit of being a dick sometimes