To start off, it seems most people have caught on to the fact that assault is really struggling to keep up with the other classes.

I figured I would write my thoughts and suggestions on potential long- and short-term fixes as I have hit a fairly high lvl on all 2,5 melee classes.

I have seen a lot of comments around people saying, melee needs a buff, i disagree. Please don't make the game easier because some people dont know they need to lvl their character and weapons, as well as play with their brains turned on in the two harder difficulties.

Melee isn’t necessarily bad, but it has some inherent weaknesses, melee has problems when facing large groups of enemies, because you can’t do meaningful dmg while remaining unscathed. It struggles against bosses, as you can only use melee against 3/5 bosses, and even then, it’s simply much better and safer to use a ranged weapon. It also struggles more than the ranged classes against the chaos enemies, as small groups aren’t pushed away after a perfect parry, and the majoris enemies do more ranged dmg. 

These weaknesses aren’t things to fix, it simply means the melee classes need some way to deal with the weaknesses at least to some extent, and the players need to learn to play around the tools they’re given. A good example of this is how the bulwark can do aoe dmg on perfect parries and can heal to full using chapter banner. Giving the bulwark considerable sustain on a long cd, while also giving them a tool to deal with at least one of the key issues.

Bulwark is the best balanced melee class, the perks fit the playstyle and offers variety on how to approach combat, while also giving great defensive team perks. Just all around a well designed skill tree that perfectly fits the bulwark, having some perks that make up for the inherent melee weakness in a manner befitting the bulwark, and some perks that boost your strengths and effectiveness as a tank and “team backbone”

The only thought I have on the bulwark is maybe giving them access to the heavy bolt pistol, don’t see any lore reasons for why this wouldn’t work, and just a good addition to their arsenal, could potentially also remove their access to the bolt pistol in exchange for this. 

When it comes to the 0,5 melee class, aka the vanguard it’s definitely not struggling, if anything its too good and in need of a slight nerf, and I have suggestions for this, but I will get back to this. 

The vanguard as I have understood it, is supposed to deal significant dmg with primary and then grapple in for the kill with melee. This is a great class identity and works well in separating itself from the other melee classes. The only problem is it seems the developers played favorites when developing this, and simply took all the fun toys away from the poor assault and gave it to vanguard.

This not only makes assault struggle, but it also messes with vanguards class identity, how would the vanguard know what the best move is, when its better than everyone at everything. 

The vanguard has so many good perks that just doesn’t seem to fit it and would suit something like the Assault better. The core perks are all fine, but lacks the “flavor” of the vanguard, some simple improvements to make would be changing or simply giving the “melee master” perk to assault, and instead giving the vanguard something like: 

“opportunist: After dealing ranged dmg, deal 15 percent more melee dmg for 5 sec”. 

You could also switch it around so you deal more ranged dmg after dealing melee dmg, this would complement the vanguard playstyle of doing both good melee and ranged dmg. While this might seem a bit too strong, I will be taking more away from the class when it comes to signature perks.

“melee champion” The vanguard first team perk is one that boosts melee dmg by 15%, it’s a good perk and works fine, but it doesn’t fit the vanguard cause youre not pure melee as a vanguard. From my experience with the class, your dmg is more 60% ranged 40% melee, give or take, simply cause the Melta quite simply melts, and complements your playstyle well while making up for the inherent melee weakness

In contrast one perk that I can see would fit the vanguard very well is one of the assault team perks, namely “proven effiency, which boosts gun strike dmg by 50%. This would complement the increased parry window of the vanguard, while also fitting the more “flexible fighter” identity of the vanguard.

The gear perks are mostly fine, there are improvements to be made, but I don’t see them necessary as the class already has enough power.

The signature perks however are where the class identity really don’t line up properly. Namely the last perk in the perk tree. “Adrenaline rush’s” description is wrong, it heals more like 12-15% of max hp per majoris kill, making it a great perk for someone in need of sustain, the issue however is that the vanguard when played well doesn’t really need sustain as much as bulwark or assault. The sustain is nice for sure and it is the perk I have been using for this reason, but I notice this makes me play more recklessly, because I can. I don’t need to approach situations tactically or carefully, I can go guns blazing into any group and destroy the whole group with a good mix of melee and ranged, by combining my melta shots into my melee combo, any dmg taken is quickly healed up, either with the melta bug, or by simply executing the majoris enemies ive just destroyed. It takes away the whole identity of the vanguard as it allows you to do assaults job but way better, as well as about anything else the game might require. 

The combination of sustain, the melta and more melee dmg buffs then assault simply makes the vanguard too good, while also being more flexible than most other classes. 

The simple solution to this is switching an assault signature perk with this vanguard signature perk, and it just so happens that assault has a signature perk that would be great for the intended purposes of the vanguard. 

Ample ammunition reloads the equipped weapon upon using the the class ability. Giving this to the vanguard would work well with their kit. Giving them potentially more dmg with more risk, as it is no longer as safe to go into a group of enemies. (assuming the melta bug is fixed)

The consistent sustain would be harder to achieve for the assault class, but this is fine as it would simply be a more balanced signature perk, (its way too busted on vanguard) while working well with the intended playstyle of the assault.

Now assault is quite definitely in need of some love, but simply buffing the numbers won’t solve the issues the class is facing. A great start are the changes I have already suggested, switching the team and signature perks from the vanguard class, as they quite simply fit the assault much better as the aggressive melee class. These changes would make the assault feel much better as well as defining the vanguard identity, but assault would still lack key perks that would solve some of the issues presented with pure melee.

The core perks are all generally fine, but rather oddly configured, I understand the idea of making the player choose what melee perks to use and what utility perks to use. However, this misses the mark of the aggressive melee class and instead makes the player choose between 3 all great perks in the first collum, and 3 rather useless perks in the second collum. While secondary gun dmg and an extra nade every three minutes isn’t bad, it just doesn’t complement the class well, and ultimately seems useless. The second two perks of the third collum are good.

The team perks of the assault are all so bad its funny. This obviously makes any squad want anything other then an assault on their team.

Comparing the team perks of the assault to the vanguard makes this blindingly obvious.

Vanguard’s “inner fire” is so much better at getting ability charge back then assault’s “squad cohesion.

Vanguard’s “Unmatched zeal” is pretty useless as it’s a very rare heal. Assault’s “Strategic strikes” however is just completely useless. For one, melee simply isn’t good against bosses, and also, 20% is only 5% more than vanguards “melee champion” which applies to all enemies. 

“Proven efficiency” is the assault’s only somewhat good perk, but it generally ends up being useless, as all minoris enemies are oneshot by a gunstrike anyways, and most majoris class enemies will still require a short combo-parry, gunstrike-short combo to kill anyways, making it far less effective in practice then on paper. 

Now the suggested changes to core, team and Signature perks would all be great additions to the class and would help it be more viable, I also believe these changes are fairly easy to implement in the short term, without any risk of making something too good or too weak.

The gear perks of the assault is where the real improvements need to be made, but this is something that would require more time and testing and thus, long term changes. 

The main problem of the Assault class is its lack of dealing with the inherent weaknesses of melee. 

Comparing the assault to the bulwark we can see the bulwark has some solid tools to deal with the different problems that come with a lack of primary weapon. 

The assault is given no tools other then the class ability itself. Now I do have one solution to this that I believe has some real potential and would make the assault feel much better to use, the only downside is it would require more work than simple changes.

I would change some of the gear perks to revolve around dodging, as this seems to be the intended mechanic of the class, similar to parrying for the bulwark. Some of these perks could also be put as an alternative in the core perks, but I think they could work in the gear perks as well. 

“fast reactions: after a perfect dodge deal 20% more melee dmg for 5 sec”

While this might seem very strong, perfect dodges are far harder to pull off then perfect parries and are more easily punished while in a group of hostiles. More risk = more reward

“Quick feet: Perfect dodges regain 10% ability charge”

Simply giving the assault a solid and interactive way of getting back some charge

“Explosive engagement: using a jump pack dash into a dash melee attack increases the attacks dmg by 50% and adds an aoe effect”  

Gives some use to the jump pack dash, as well as another tool to engage with large groups of enemies when a jump seems like overkill

“Retaliatory rage: use a jump pack charge to turn a gun strike into a ragefull strike, dealing 25% more dmg in an aoe”

Now this one is the one that would require the most work as I imagine it as a unique animation, similar to the executions, but much quicker, on par with the gun strike animation. Giving the Assault I-frames and Aoe dmg in a pinch is a great tool to get out of a tough spot. To give the player the choice between using a normal gun strike and retaliatory rage use either the normal button for a gun strike or the melee button for a retaliatory rage. 

I would also make a normal jump pack dash only consume 1/2 of a charge, as the dash is completely useless and irrelevant in its current iteration, as a jump gets u further gives u overview of the combat and does dmg. 

These changes might seem a bit over the top, but for a class with none of the tools necessary to deal with melee combat effectively there is simply no point in going it at the moment. 

My hope is that some of these suggestions or something similar to it can be implemented over time, I am really enjoying the game and really want to enjoy assault more, but it simply isn’t good enough as it is to use it in ruthless effectively. 

It is possible for sure, and I have done it multiple times, but it is considerably harder to pull off while also being simply much worse than the other melee classes, requiring much more from your teammates to be an effective squad in ruthless. 

Melee absolutely needs a buff. Power gamers need to realize not everyone plays like they do and that the point of the game should be to have fun, not log off in frustration because Space Marine 2 somehow feels like a broken Dark Souls. I shouldn't play this game and say to myself, "Why did I have more fun in the first Space Marine?". I'm glad you have all this time to devote to analyzing pixels in bullet time so you know when to perfectly dodge or force the parry mechanic to actually work for you but that isn't true of everyone.
The game is insanely overtuned as is. This is not a "skill issue" as the children like to say, it is fact. Supposedly two million people bought this game but I can't find a match for Operations to slog through to level my broken Assault because none of the perks make sense, the jetpack is utter garbage, and your survivability is next to non-existent on top of the constant server issues. There is no Space Marine power fantasy in Space Marine 2, there is just dodge simulator. 
Furthermore, calling for nerfs already is insane. Just because a class is good, you don't go "omg this is too good and that needs to stop", you bring everything else up to its level. I don't understand the masochism some people have to want a game to make your blood pressure rise. Nobody is saying they want things to be a walk in the park but as things are now, melee is garbage for most classes, the Bolters all suck, and the slog to even approach making your class not feel like you're blind and crippled is way too long. Space Marine 1 had a lot of things to unlock and the journey unlocking those things was fun. Challenging, fun, and I didn't feel like the game was trying to punish me or disrespect my time. Space Marine 2 is the absolute opposite of that. 

The way health and armor work right now absolutely need to be rethought and rebalanced. I'm glad some people can play the best class solo on Ruthless and win but all that means is there is only one viable class for end game with one viable weapon. That doesn't mean you take that away, you lift the rest up. Assault in general as you already postulated needs a COMPLETE rework. The armor system needs to be redone or Space Marines just flat out given more armor bars. Combat is a joke and unfun, I feel like I spent $100 just for Sabre to spit in my face and say my time is worthless.

​

PANTHERX0 wrote:

To start off, it seems most people have caught on to the fact that assault is really struggling to keep up with the other classes.

I figured I would write my thoughts and suggestions on potential long- and short-term fixes as I have hit a fairly high lvl on all 2,5 melee classes.

I have seen a lot of comments around people saying, melee needs a buff, i disagree. Please don't make the game easier because some people dont know they need to lvl their character and weapons, as well as play with their brains turned on in the two harder difficulties.

Melee isn’t necessarily bad, but it has some inherent weaknesses, melee has problems when facing large groups of enemies, because you can’t do meaningful dmg while remaining unscathed. It struggles against bosses, as you can only use melee against 3/5 bosses, and even then, it’s simply much better and safer to use a ranged weapon. It also struggles more than the ranged classes against the chaos enemies, as small groups aren’t pushed away after a perfect parry, and the majoris enemies do more ranged dmg. 

These weaknesses aren’t things to fix, it simply means the melee classes need some way to deal with the weaknesses at least to some extent, and the players need to learn to play around the tools they’re given. A good example of this is how the bulwark can do aoe dmg on perfect parries and can heal to full using chapter banner. Giving the bulwark considerable sustain on a long cd, while also giving them a tool to deal with at least one of the key issues.

 

Bulwark is the best balanced melee class, the perks fit the playstyle and offers variety on how to approach combat, while also giving great defensive team perks. Just all around a well designed skill tree that perfectly fits the bulwark, having some perks that make up for the inherent melee weakness in a manner befitting the bulwark, and some perks that boost your strengths and effectiveness as a tank and “team backbone”

The only thought I have on the bulwark is maybe giving them access to the heavy bolt pistol, don’t see any lore reasons for why this wouldn’t work, and just a good addition to their arsenal, could potentially also remove their access to the bolt pistol in exchange for this. 

 

When it comes to the 0,5 melee class, aka the vanguard it’s definitely not struggling, if anything its too good and in need of a slight nerf, and I have suggestions for this, but I will get back to this. 

The vanguard as I have understood it, is supposed to deal significant dmg with primary and then grapple in for the kill with melee. This is a great class identity and works well in separating itself from the other melee classes. The only problem is it seems the developers played favorites when developing this, and simply took all the fun toys away from the poor assault and gave it to vanguard.

This not only makes assault struggle, but it also messes with vanguards class identity, how would the vanguard know what the best move is, when its better than everyone at everything. 

 

The vanguard has so many good perks that just doesn’t seem to fit it and would suit something like the Assault better. The core perks are all fine, but lacks the “flavor” of the vanguard, some simple improvements to make would be changing or simply giving the “melee master” perk to assault, and instead giving the vanguard something like: 

“opportunist: After dealing ranged dmg, deal 15 percent more melee dmg for 5 sec”. 

You could also switch it around so you deal more ranged dmg after dealing melee dmg, this would complement the vanguard playstyle of doing both good melee and ranged dmg. While this might seem a bit too strong, I will be taking more away from the class when it comes to signature perks.

 

“melee champion” The vanguard first team perk is one that boosts melee dmg by 15%, it’s a good perk and works fine, but it doesn’t fit the vanguard cause youre not pure melee as a vanguard. From my experience with the class, your dmg is more 60% ranged 40% melee, give or take, simply cause the Melta quite simply melts, and complements your playstyle well while making up for the inherent melee weakness

In contrast one perk that I can see would fit the vanguard very well is one of the assault team perks, namely “proven effiency, which boosts gun strike dmg by 50%. This would complement the increased parry window of the vanguard, while also fitting the more “flexible fighter” identity of the vanguard.

The gear perks are mostly fine, there are improvements to be made, but I don’t see them necessary as the class already has enough power.

The signature perks however are where the class identity really don’t line up properly. Namely the last perk in the perk tree. “Adrenaline rush’s” description is wrong, it heals more like 12-15% of max hp per majoris kill, making it a great perk for someone in need of sustain, the issue however is that the vanguard when played well doesn’t really need sustain as much as bulwark or assault. The sustain is nice for sure and it is the perk I have been using for this reason, but I notice this makes me play more recklessly, because I can. I don’t need to approach situations tactically or carefully, I can go guns blazing into any group and destroy the whole group with a good mix of melee and ranged, by combining my melta shots into my melee combo, any dmg taken is quickly healed up, either with the melta bug, or by simply executing the majoris enemies ive just destroyed. It takes away the whole identity of the vanguard as it allows you to do assaults job but way better, as well as about anything else the game might require. 

The combination of sustain, the melta and more melee dmg buffs then assault simply makes the vanguard too good, while also being more flexible than most other classes. 

The simple solution to this is switching an assault signature perk with this vanguard signature perk, and it just so happens that assault has a signature perk that would be great for the intended purposes of the vanguard. 

Ample ammunition reloads the equipped weapon upon using the the class ability. Giving this to the vanguard would work well with their kit. Giving them potentially more dmg with more risk, as it is no longer as safe to go into a group of enemies. (assuming the melta bug is fixed)

The consistent sustain would be harder to achieve for the assault class, but this is fine as it would simply be a more balanced signature perk, (its way too busted on vanguard) while working well with the intended playstyle of the assault.

 

Now assault is quite definitely in need of some love, but simply buffing the numbers won’t solve the issues the class is facing. A great start are the changes I have already suggested, switching the team and signature perks from the vanguard class, as they quite simply fit the assault much better as the aggressive melee class. These changes would make the assault feel much better as well as defining the vanguard identity, but assault would still lack key perks that would solve some of the issues presented with pure melee.

The core perks are all generally fine, but rather oddly configured, I understand the idea of making the player choose what melee perks to use and what utility perks to use. However, this misses the mark of the aggressive melee class and instead makes the player choose between 3 all great perks in the first collum, and 3 rather useless perks in the second collum. While secondary gun dmg and an extra nade every three minutes isn’t bad, it just doesn’t complement the class well, and ultimately seems useless. The second two perks of the third collum are good.

 

The team perks of the assault are all so bad its funny. This obviously makes any squad want anything other then an assault on their team.

Comparing the team perks of the assault to the vanguard makes this blindingly obvious.

 

Vanguard’s “inner fire” is so much better at getting ability charge back then assault’s “squad cohesion.

Vanguard’s “Unmatched zeal” is pretty useless as it’s a very rare heal. Assault’s “Strategic strikes” however is just completely useless. For one, melee simply isn’t good against bosses, and also, 20% is only 5% more than vanguards “melee champion” which applies to all enemies. 

“Proven efficiency” is the assault’s only somewhat good perk, but it generally ends up being useless, as all minoris enemies are oneshot by a gunstrike anyways, and most majoris class enemies will still require a short combo-parry, gunstrike-short combo to kill anyways, making it far less effective in practice then on paper. 

Now the suggested changes to core, team and Signature perks would all be great additions to the class and would help it be more viable, I also believe these changes are fairly easy to implement in the short term, without any risk of making something too good or too weak.

The gear perks of the assault is where the real improvements need to be made, but this is something that would require more time and testing and thus, long term changes. 

 

The main problem of the Assault class is its lack of dealing with the inherent weaknesses of melee. 

Comparing the assault to the bulwark we can see the bulwark has some solid tools to deal with the different problems that come with a lack of primary weapon. 

The assault is given no tools other then the class ability itself. Now I do have one solution to this that I believe has some real potential and would make the assault feel much better to use, the only downside is it would require more work than simple changes.

I would change some of the gear perks to revolve around dodging, as this seems to be the intended mechanic of the class, similar to parrying for the bulwark. Some of these perks could also be put as an alternative in the core perks, but I think they could work in the gear perks as well. 

“fast reactions: after a perfect dodge deal 20% more melee dmg for 5 sec”

While this might seem very strong, perfect dodges are far harder to pull off then perfect parries and are more easily punished while in a group of hostiles. More risk = more reward

“Quick feet: Perfect dodges regain 10% ability charge”

Simply giving the assault a solid and interactive way of getting back some charge

“Explosive engagement: using a jump pack dash into a dash melee attack increases the attacks dmg by 50% and adds an aoe effect”  

Gives some use to the jump pack dash, as well as another tool to engage with large groups of enemies when a jump seems like overkill

“Retaliatory rage: use a jump pack charge to turn a gun strike into a ragefull strike, dealing 25% more dmg in an aoe”

Now this one is the one that would require the most work as I imagine it as a unique animation, similar to the executions, but much quicker, on par with the gun strike animation. Giving the Assault I-frames and Aoe dmg in a pinch is a great tool to get out of a tough spot. To give the player the choice between using a normal gun strike and retaliatory rage use either the normal button for a gun strike or the melee button for a retaliatory rage. 

I would also make a normal jump pack dash only consume 1/2 of a charge, as the dash is completely useless and irrelevant in its current iteration, as a jump gets u further gives u overview of the combat and does dmg. 

These changes might seem a bit over the top, but for a class with none of the tools necessary to deal with melee combat effectively there is simply no point in going it at the moment. 

My hope is that some of these suggestions or something similar to it can be implemented over time, I am really enjoying the game and really want to enjoy assault more, but it simply isn’t good enough as it is to use it in ruthless effectively. 

It is possible for sure, and I have done it multiple times, but it is considerably harder to pull off while also being simply much worse than the other melee classes, requiring much more from your teammates to be an effective squad in ruthless. 

Great post, well thought out.

My major issue with assault is that it has possibly the coolest unique weapon in the game - the Thunderhammer, yet its really underwhelming to use. the damage it does for how slow it is just does not match up. In fact overall damage output of assault is extremely lacking.

As an assault player myself, I agree that some better perks would feel nice.  There are too many "when you get hit by a heavy attack or knocked back, you do more damage" and "can't be knocked back while charging" sorts of things, which, I get that the idea is likely to take damage then get the health back from the big swing, but the white bar diminishes so quickly that you often just... don't.  I don't have the Ground Slam/Aftershock regain 100% more white health perk yet on the hammer, but even so, that's a whole lot of shoehorning a playstyle in that just doesn't jive with the tuning very well.  If Assault doubled or tripled the duration that white health existed, you might actually have a Blood DK stew going with taking hits but getting the health back through aggressive play/executions.  It just all isn't quite right, but man does it feel close, because you can still pound around and be quite effective.

If I had to choose just 1 change to the class, I'd cut the jump back cooldown at least in half.  Maybe more.  Just let me leap around on the regular to actually be a mobile Assault boy, it isn't like jumping up into the air makes you invincible anyway, I've died mid-air plenty of times.  As it stands, I basically refuse to use jump pack dash just because it feels like a waste of a coveted charge.  I'd love to feel like I could use it.

​

Skoll wrote:

Melee absolutely needs a buff. Power gamers need to realize not everyone plays like they do and that the point of the game should be to have fun, not log off in frustration because Space Marine 2 somehow feels like a broken Dark Souls. I shouldn't play this game and say to myself, "Why did I have more fun in the first Space Marine?". I'm glad you have all this time to devote to analyzing pixels in bullet time so you know when to perfectly dodge or force the parry mechanic to actually work for you but that isn't true of everyone.
The game is insanely overtuned as is. This is not a "skill issue" as the children like to say, it is fact. Supposedly two million people bought this game but I can't find a match for Operations to slog through to level my broken Assault because none of the perks make sense, the jetpack is utter garbage, and your survivability is next to non-existent on top of the constant server issues. There is no Space Marine power fantasy in Space Marine 2, there is just dodge simulator. 
Furthermore, calling for nerfs already is insane. Just because a class is good, you don't go "omg this is too good and that needs to stop", you bring everything else up to its level. I don't understand the masochism some people have to want a game to make your blood pressure rise. Nobody is saying they want things to be a walk in the park but as things are now, melee is garbage for most classes, the Bolters all suck, and the slog to even approach making your class not feel like you're blind and crippled is way too long. Space Marine 1 had a lot of things to unlock and the journey unlocking those things was fun. Challenging, fun, and I didn't feel like the game was trying to punish me or disrespect my time. Space Marine 2 is the absolute opposite of that. 

The way health and armor work right now absolutely need to be rethought and rebalanced. I'm glad some people can play the best class solo on Ruthless and win but all that means is there is only one viable class for end game with one viable weapon. That doesn't mean you take that away, you lift the rest up. Assault in general as you already postulated needs a COMPLETE rework. The armor system needs to be redone or Space Marines just flat out given more armor bars. Combat is a joke and unfun, I feel like I spent $100 just for Sabre to spit in my face and say my time is worthless.

I agree with you whole heartedly, i proposed some ideas to fix the health and armour issue, but i keep getting these "dont make the game easier" and "skill issue" nutters who have seemingly broken out of their bondage pain harnesses and beds of broken glass, to dodge gunfire on the way to the fridge to pour a bowl of nails and off milk for their "its just glass in a box-o's" while they sit on a 16 inch spike and stare into the sun until IT gives up.. 

 i have enjoyed the game on normal difficulty because the campaign is more fun than the system is unfun.. but when you start going through the operations and ramp the difficulty up, thats where the unfun is just too big to ignore and the cracks dont just show, they scream loudly.. i feel like people are ignoring all the problems because theyre hyped still and their fathers refuse to look them in the eye until they can take a cannonball to the chest without dying.. 

its sad that a great game like this is probably going to drop off and die all because of an outdated system like health or the powerfantasy fully dying.. 

You lost me at vanguard needs a nerf.. like hell it does. Vanguard does well because of one weapon the melta rifle. The class it self is just ok if you remove that gun.

I'm not calling for melta rifle nerf.. I think other weapons need to be brought up to it's level. 

Both slow melee weapons need to buffed the fist and thunder Hammer. They need inate ways to get armor back or health. As no one is really using fist weapons even the bulwark.. it's all power sword for that class.