​I would get rid of the difficulty tiers tied to weapon progression and make a unified currency requiring for example 100 tokens to level up a weapon to the next tier, that way you can make the lower difficulty give 5 tokens each run, the second one gives 10, third one gives 15 and last one 20 and then you can purchase with 100 tokens each tier. So everybody can farm the tokens at their own pace in their own comfortable difficulty, it's just a matter of time to reach the same goal and keep progressing. The only thing that will change is the amount of runs you will need, being 20 runs from the lowest to 5 runs at the highest.

​

Artisan wrote:

Please remove the silly weapon xp grind when trying to level up other weapons.

Instead, a better system would be using armory data for each weapon under the specific level category would contribute to that category's overall xp (so that when you apply data to each it unlocks the next level). I lost all interest grinding through green/purple etc. just to try new weapons with max perks. The current system is totally an unnecessary grind that makes me not want to play.

You can use armoury data to master a weapon variant so all you have to do is just use your favourite. Making the data add exp would almost completely remove weapon progression leaving you with only perks to unlock (assuming you already mained one class for a short while). Games need progression, at least a bit of grind sometimes and should be rewarding to not be repetitive and boring after just 20h of gameplay.
On the other hand using a unified currency would completely remove the whole 'forced' difficuilty progression idea on top of armoury data hunting and add actual tedious grind.

​

Artisan wrote:

Please remove the silly weapon xp grind when trying to level up other weapons.

Instead, a better system would be using armory data for each weapon under the specific level category would contribute to that category's overall xp (so that when you apply data to each it unlocks the next level). I lost all interest grinding through green/purple etc. just to try new weapons with max perks. The current system is totally an unnecessary grind that makes me not want to play.

At first i liked leveling each weapon, but now most my characters are 25 and switching to starter weapons requires me to lower the difficulty on a level 25 to be able to complete operations feels terrible. Im capped out on armory data and unable to spend it on anything it really feels bad and makes me not want to level other weapons. Having the armory data give weapon xp would be a very good way to improve the current weapon leveling system.

​

STONEHEAD wrote:

​

Colancio wrote:

​I would get rid of the difficulty tiers tied to weapon progression and make a unified currency requiring for example 100 tokens to level up a weapon to the next tier, that way you can make the lower difficulty give 5 tokens each run, the second one gives 10, third one gives 15 and last one 20 and then you can purchase with 100 tokens each tier. So everybody can farm the tokens at their own pace in their own comfortable difficulty, it's just a matter of time to reach the same goal and keep progressing. The only thing that will change is the amount of runs you will need, being 20 runs from the lowest to 5 runs at the highest.

Now I really do not like the idea of 5 Ruthless runs for one unlock token. They would have to make it 100 tokens per Ruthless run/armory data cache found for this to be a viable alternative without it feeling grading. Plus, we already have the same system in the form of Mastery Points. It would be redundant to add another. I think the system we have right now is fine. Forces casuals to at least try the hardest content and gives those difficulties a purpose. If they didn't have specific unlocks, everyone would just be grinding the easiest difficulty since you already get all of the cosmetics that way and the Ruthless lobbies would be harder to find. Not only that but it also outlines problems each class has. If Ruthless was pointless to grind then everyone wouldn't have any valuable constructive criticism to iron-out kinks in the game. I'm glad more people are playing Ruthless for these tokens because then now everyone knows how useless melee is and it will now likely receive a buff. 

It won't get people running the easiest ones because once you get the first relic ones, you'll one-shot everything. Yeah, it can be fun for a while but then you will want to do higher difficulties because you can farm the next set of weapons even faster with the amount of tokens given (what do you prefer to run 20 times a mission to unlock a weapon or only 5 runs at ruthless?) and also because your weapon and character power grew a lot more.

​

SpardaKnight wrote:

​

Artisan wrote:

Please remove the silly weapon xp grind when trying to level up other weapons.

Instead, a better system would be using armory data for each weapon under the specific level category would contribute to that category's overall xp (so that when you apply data to each it unlocks the next level). I lost all interest grinding through green/purple etc. just to try new weapons with max perks. The current system is totally an unnecessary grind that makes me not want to play.

At first i liked leveling each weapon, but now most my characters are 25 and switching to starter weapons requires me to lower the difficulty on a level 25 to be able to complete operations feels terrible. Im capped out on armory data and unable to spend it on anything it really feels bad and makes me not want to level other weapons. Having the armory data give weapon xp would be a very good way to improve the current weapon leveling system.

this is it here, i have the same experience.

The grind is pointless for weapon xp, i don't get anything out of it except wasting time. I already leveled to 25, and collected armory data. I should be able to use the data to fast track weapon xp on the weapons i havent tried yet. Grinding weapon xp through green and purple is not fun (when dong it for the 3rd, 4th, 5th time etc.)...

​

Rexipher wrote:

The game's only been playable for about 3 weeks. If the weapon upgrade system was as you ask for people would've by now complained that the game is too short. That there's nothing to do because everything's maxed out already.
Leveling/Upgrade progress in games is nothing more than the game making sure that people have to keep on playing if they want to reach the top/max things out.
I doubt that we'll see any changes, big ones at least to the leveling/progression.

The problem is not speed, I already have every weapon maxed out, but man that was torture just for the sake of being torture, there's no logical reason why the leveling system has to be so annoying once you are max level and you need to drop your OP weapon and level another one without feeling like a wet noodle for several hours until you hit at least the purple tier.

​

Rexipher wrote:

​

Colancio wrote:

​

Rexipher wrote:

The game's only been playable for about 3 weeks. If the weapon upgrade system was as you ask for people would've by now complained that the game is too short. That there's nothing to do because everything's maxed out already.
Leveling/Upgrade progress in games is nothing more than the game making sure that people have to keep on playing if they want to reach the top/max things out.
I doubt that we'll see any changes, big ones at least to the leveling/progression.

The problem is not speed, I already have every weapon maxed out, but man that was torture just for the sake of being torture, there's no logical reason why the leveling system has to be so annoying once you are max level and you need to drop your OP weapon and level another one without feeling like a wet noodle for several hours until you hit at least the purple tier.

If nothing else, at least it makes it so lower tiers of difficulties will have a pool of people for quickplays for those individuals whom might not have reached the higher tiers yet.

That could work, the problem is the experience is awful for all while leveling low-level weapons in a max character. Here's my personal example from a couple of days ago, I decided to level up the plasma rifle with my tactical (having both pistol and chainsword relic tier) so I did difficulty level 2 with 2 more people being level 6 and 7, I was destroying everything in my path in Decapitation to the point that we made it to the hive tyrant and one shotted him on the second phase. The other 2 guys were complaining why a level 25 was on a low difficulty killing everything and I truly understand them, I ruined their experience, I carried them the whole game and they couldn't even shoot at the final boss it was already dead.

That's awful, max level players should be playing at max difficulty every time, not steamrolling lower-level difficulties to level up a weapon. I could try going ruthless with a low-level weapon, but I will hinder the team and don't want to be carried and you will have a slog of a time fighting at ruthless with a bolt pistol and a chainsword for hours.

​

Rexipher wrote:

The game's only been playable for about 3 weeks. If the weapon upgrade system was as you ask for people would've by now complained that the game is too short. That there's nothing to do because everything's maxed out already.
Leveling/Upgrade progress in games is nothing more than the game making sure that people have to keep on playing if they want to reach the top/max things out.
I doubt that we'll see any changes, big ones at least to the leveling/progression.

Brother, seeing a weapon xp bar gradually move = nothing to do. I want to play ruthless and not diddle in lower difficulty with low levels, effectively ruining their experience.

Also, if Darktide can do it as of today (took them 2 years though haha), so can SM2 (maybe sooner) :)

Keep the current system, for using the tokens for mastery, unlocking the next tier etc. this part of the system works "ok".

As some others have pointed out though, when you go back to level a new weapon, you go into ruthless and make your teammates perform a lot of the work, or try to use your secondary as a relic to help mitigate your primary being a grey/green weapon as an example.  Dropping the difficulty is a solution, however, again as others have suggested in either the same or similar ways... Allow the tokens to be used to fast track exp, all use of them similar to mastery.  If you're in the purple tier, you have to use purple armory tokens or higher.  The armory tokens can provide X amount of exp, this amount could even be a small amount such that it would take you 20 tokens to go from grey to relic, or potentially more.   

Introducing this would still allow the existing system to function exactly as it does.  It would let people use their overcapped armory tokens, and continue to play at the higher difficulties if they desire.  You're not going to be able to run a bunch of difficulty 1 and 2's to max weapons out, since with this you would still need artificer (purple) and relic (yellow) armory tokens.

​

Stradley wrote:
What is the armory data cap/  I'd love to be able to trade multiple lower level data for a higher level, maybe 5 master crafted to make an artificier or something

The cap is currently 20 of each and 990 gold/requisitions/whatever the yellow coin is

​

Enot83 wrote:

Keep the current system, for using the tokens for mastery, unlocking the next tier etc. this part of the system works "ok".

As some others have pointed out though, when you go back to level a new weapon, you go into ruthless and make your teammates perform a lot of the work, or try to use your secondary as a relic to help mitigate your primary being a grey/green weapon as an example.  Dropping the difficulty is a solution, however, again as others have suggested in either the same or similar ways... Allow the tokens to be used to fast track exp, all use of them similar to mastery.  If you're in the purple tier, you have to use purple armory tokens or higher.  The armory tokens can provide X amount of exp, this amount could even be a small amount such that it would take you 20 tokens to go from grey to relic, or potentially more.   

Introducing this would still allow the existing system to function exactly as it does.  It would let people use their overcapped armory tokens, and continue to play at the higher difficulties if they desire.  You're not going to be able to run a bunch of difficulty 1 and 2's to max weapons out, since with this you would still need artificer (purple) and relic (yellow) armory tokens.

I agree, this is the way - one change i would propose is to allow using yellow data in-lieu of green or purple for all the tiers of the weapon's xp. That way we can just stick to ruthless and be able to try new weapons without having to drop difficulty (since once you are level 25 it just feels bad going into Average or Substantial).