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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

There's always a "git gud" troll in the group that tries to gaslight everyone. I'm glad you have enjoyed the new difficulty and content, don't tell other people they have to agree with you, and certainly don't try to demean the average player with your passive aggressive "get over it" nonsense. 

Must be nice to have friends on voice comms that are seasoned no-lifers to clear lethal with while the rest of the solo players just fumble around and get rekt because the devs seem to believe streamers and comment trolls more than the majority of the playerbase. But hey go on and show off that shiny knee decal that nobody sees for most of the game.

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Koetetsu wrote:

Must be nice to have friends on voice comms that are seasoned no-lifers to clear lethal with while the rest of the solo players just fumble around and get rekt because the devs seem to believe streamers and comment trolls more than the majority of the playerbase. But hey go on and show off that shiny knee decal that nobody sees for most of the game.

^^^^

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Vargyr wrote:

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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

There's always a "git gud" troll in the group that tries to gaslight everyone. I'm glad you have enjoyed the new difficulty and content, don't tell other people they have to agree with you, and certainly don't try to demean the average player with your passive aggressive "get over it" nonsense. 

Yeah go ahead & cater the game to the few jobless clowns who've maxed everything in the game already.  A new difficulty was added for those people,  it wasn't necessary to drastically increase the difficulty on everything else at the same time taking the fun out of playing. 

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Koetetsu wrote:

Must be nice to have friends on voice comms that are seasoned no-lifers to clear lethal with while the rest of the solo players just fumble around and get rekt because the devs seem to believe streamers and comment trolls more than the majority of the playerbase. But hey go on and show off that shiny knee decal that nobody sees for most of the game.

I've had zero problems running ruthless modes with random people not using voice chat in the game so far. Sure once in a while the run will fail but that's usually when the whole team is between 10 and 20, and not even that often.

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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

Implementation of an arbitrary "stick" mechanic just seems a bit counterproductive. I do think in a lot of cases the community is being reactionary, hyperbolic and bad faith but there were a lot of bad calls this patch. Yes, the new difficulty is doable with a good team, and you're absolutely right, we don't need to clear every difficulty, but I don't think a previously unmentioned, unused mechanic was a sound decision especially with positional synchronization issues that are still very prevalent in the current build.

I wouldn't mind the new toughest difficulty if it didn't have cosmetics locked behind it. Being a long time W40k lover I really want access to all the items available to gorge on 40k fun :) A part of that fun is Codex/Lore accurate armour with heraldry/markings.

First run on ruthless, newest mission, was fun.

Lethal... 5-6 attempts all failed.

I understand that if you have buddies that play well and can talk it must be fun.

I could easily ignore it and stay on ruthless, but it unlocks cosmetics that I want. So I will keep trying. I think lethal difficulty is a bit over the top but I guess it caters to some gamers.

Also, there was no reason at all to nerf parry. Made no sense at all?!

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Aeonid_Thiel wrote:

Also, there was no reason at all to nerf parry. Made no sense at all?!

Um parry wasn't nerfed.

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Vargyr wrote:

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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

There's always a "git gud" troll in the group that tries to gaslight everyone. I'm glad you have enjoyed the new difficulty and content, don't tell other people they have to agree with you, and certainly don't try to demean the average player with your passive aggressive "get over it" nonsense. 

No it just really isn't that hard.
When they nerfed ruthless you all screamed that we just "had to wait for lethal" and now lethal is here, we get to have our fun.
And mfers like you are screaming from the rooftops how unfair it is and how the devs are out of touch and all that shit because.. lethal is too hard...

You lot made the arguments of:
"It's only because of the relic armoury data" for ruthless.
And now your actual weapon progression is not tied to the highest difficulty. yet here you all are again, demanding lethal get nerfed into the ground again to make up for the fact that being challenged is an insult to you. Because to consider that other people might be having fun on a higher difficulty than you, is inconceivable.

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Aeonid_Thiel wrote:

I wouldn't mind the new toughest difficulty if it didn't have cosmetics locked behind it. Being a long time W40k lover I really want access to all the items available to gorge on 40k fun :) A part of that fun is Codex/Lore accurate armour with heraldry/markings.

First run on ruthless, newest mission, was fun.

Lethal... 5-6 attempts all failed.

I understand that if you have buddies that play well and can talk it must be fun.

I could easily ignore it and stay on ruthless, but it unlocks cosmetics that I want. So I will keep trying. I think lethal difficulty is a bit over the top but I guess it caters to some gamers.

Also, there was no reason at all to nerf parry. Made no sense at all?!

"I could easily ignore it and stay on ruthless, but it unlocks cosmetics that I want. "
So then ignore it and stay on ruthless, or get good enough to play lethal. Don't demand others to have less fun because you decide you must have the pretty cosmetics.
They are not essential to your gameplay and I'll bet you'll never even use them.

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Azmodeus9 wrote:

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Vargyr wrote:

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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

There's always a "git gud" troll in the group that tries to gaslight everyone. I'm glad you have enjoyed the new difficulty and content, don't tell other people they have to agree with you, and certainly don't try to demean the average player with your passive aggressive "get over it" nonsense. 

Yeah go ahead & cater the game to the few jobless clowns who've maxed everything in the game already.  A new difficulty was added for those people,  it wasn't necessary to drastically increase the difficulty on everything else at the same time taking the fun out of playing. 

Yeah go ahead and just assume everyone who enjoys difficulty to be jobless, most of them work full time jobs. Most of you people complaining about the difficulty changes, very clearly don't.

and what do you mean "it wasn't necessary to drastically increase the difficulty on everything else at the same time taking the fun out of playing.  " They only nerfed ruthless a little bit which was necessary, because nothing about it was ruthless, and the TINIEST nerf on substantial. If this leads you to think the game is too hard then you never liked the game to begin with.

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Gary_The_Metro wrote:

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Vargyr wrote:

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Jopin wrote:

And what i mean by that is, it really isn't.  I've beat all lethal missions first try as tactical, and it feels really good,  With the aspect of promoting "teamwork" through the tethering it feels like my teammates actually fight with me as a squad and if you don't you get overwhelmed it makes you feel like you are truly fighting against all odds.

And to all the people complaining about the tethering "ruining" some classes most likely did not have a good team that worked together or they were just not good enough for lethal, and that's fine, not everyone has to play the hardest difficulty, hell even now ruthless gave me a bit of trouble the first time i played it after the update, And during my playthrough lethal on decapitation one of my teammates played assault and he still did good, only went down once and got over 6k melee, Same case on my ballistic engine run, had a sniper player and a vanguard bot, The guy playing sniper did incredible, only downed once at the very end and he still ended up with highest range damage,  So to all you people complaining about classes being "ruined" by the update, get over it they're still all perfectly viable if you're good enough, and if you can't make it work don't play on lethal, its as simple as that

There's always a "git gud" troll in the group that tries to gaslight everyone. I'm glad you have enjoyed the new difficulty and content, don't tell other people they have to agree with you, and certainly don't try to demean the average player with your passive aggressive "get over it" nonsense. 

No it just really isn't that hard.
When they nerfed ruthless you all screamed that we just "had to wait for lethal" and now lethal is here, we get to have our fun.
And mfers like you are screaming from the rooftops how unfair it is and how the devs are out of touch and all that shit because.. lethal is too hard...

You lot made the arguments of:
"It's only because of the relic armoury data" for ruthless.
And now your actual weapon progression is not tied to the highest difficulty. yet here you all are again, demanding lethal get nerfed into the ground again to make up for the fact that being challenged is an insult to you. Because to consider that other people might be having fun on a higher difficulty than you, is inconceivable.

Yeah, this.
People who wanted a harder challenge got shafted when Ruthless got nerfed so that people could upgrade their weapons, complaining that a game shouldn't lock progression behind harder difficulties.
Now there's a harder difficulty that doesn't lock any progression behind it and yet people complain once again.
So one can ask, was it really because of the progression that people complained before?
Or do gamers simply feel entitled to be able to complete anything, regardless of personal skills?

6k damage on assault is horrible) usually they dish out 12-15k melee . This just shows that he was forced to stand back most of the time. New difficulty is fun only for shooters. Tethering ruins it for melee, and thus is a very questionable mechanic. Especially for assault. Sniper/heavy/tactical are easiest classes for lethal.

I suggest everyone, who played lethal only on ranged classes, play it on assault before bragging. This tethering mechanic is not affecting ranged combat at all, if youre at least decent. But melee with just pistols are broken  because of it. I've tried it on bulwark and heavy, and heavy was miles easier. i cant imagine what assaults are going through without shield and banner to heal.

My squad and I beat most missions on Lethal last night, we all have approx 200 hours on the game and unlocked all the content. We loved the new game director, we loved that two extremis can spawn at once, fighting a Lictor and a Ravenour both at once was pretty epic.

But we all agreed on one thing regarding the new cohesion mechanic - it's just not fun.

So the problem is not  "it's too hard" or "I'm entitled to be able to beat everything".  It's the complete lack of sense and creativity that has been put into rolling out this mechanic. It forces you to play in a more particular constrained manner, classes which have anything to do with distance based combat i.e Sniper/Assault/Heavy/Vanguard do not play or feel as their intended DESIGN suggests anymore - yes you can make it work, but come on guys, what's the point of having classes with unique skills and mobility abilitiues if you're going to make them all run around in a tight non flexible formation as though they're all sharing the same potato sack in a three legged race. 

Some of my best past memories on Ruthless are when getting separated from the squad, caught in a bad position, cornered, on the last remaining pixel of health and isolated with no help because team mates are pinned down as well. Standing my ground and fending off a Lictor, 6 warriors and three dozen gaunts - methodically parrying, dodging, gun striking and executing , completely locked-in, trying to maintain a single bar of armor to stay in the fight just a little longer to slowly slaughter them all and come out the other side to regroup with my squad completely covered in blood and guts.

I just don't see that happening anymore, as soon as you're separated, well too bad, better hope you can somehow donut roll your way back to your nearest team mate because you've got little chance of standing your ground like before - you know, like a real Space Marine. Heck I would rather fight two Carnifexes, a Lictor and a Ravenour all at once and continually die a dozen times, and least it would be a glorious death and not because my battle brother wasn't there to hold my hand.

Do we also need to mention that this can totally now be used as a griefing mechanic? some troll can just completely refuse to stick with the team and cause everyone to die. Want to punish speed runners and rambos that runs solo ahead? spawn three extremis on them to punish them. Isolate them with a wave.  Anything else would probably be better than this at this point, whatever this is.

This mechanic needs a big rework, or swapped for something else, it just seems like a very lazy and uncreative way to pad the difficulty level and can be described more along the lines of anti-fun and immersion breaking, purely there to increase player frustration under the guise of making things harder. This is  even more plainly obvious because of the fact that it's a mechanic currently unique only to Lethal.

Make things challenging, yes we want that, make it impossible even. But at least still make it fun, creative, immersive and rewarding rather than punishing, frustrating and non-sensicle with blatant hamstringing. People who say Git Gud or Skill Issue are either distasteful are just trying to stroke some sort of personal ego rather than being critical in the context of what good game design should be, gas-lighting devs and players into accepting this level of thought and game development to be acceptable. Note this isn't taking away at all from the very obvious hard work and genuine engagement the Dev team have given the players, and a lot should be praised for it. But as with all things not everything can be perfect and flaws should be called out.

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Koetetsu wrote:

Must be nice to have friends on voice comms that are seasoned no-lifers to clear lethal with while the rest of the solo players just fumble around and get rekt because the devs seem to believe streamers and comment trolls more than the majority of the playerbase. But hey go on and show off that shiny knee decal that nobody sees for most of the game.

I've beaten lethal repeatedly with randoms. It's definitely quite challenging, especially since you can't regen armor when your the last man standing, but it is doable. 

Lethal IS hard, and your opinions and skills are bad compared to my own