Making this thread to mostly now draw attention to how the current health economy is greatly reliant on not just the Icon nerf, but how many classes are seeming to require bringing perks to alleviate the strangled and nerfed general methods we currently have (mostly looking at Stimms being less frequent and healing less and less), to heal back up.

Chip damage in this game is unavoidable. Mostly accounted for by ranged enemies but that is a separate issue that bleeds into health recovery issues. But, to somewhat alleviate this. I propose they add in, as the title says, giving contested health on executions for minoris and majoris threat level enemies. Say, 5%ish on minoris and 10%ish and the contested health from those instances fading much slower to allow you an opportunity to get the health back. This is mostly to give every class a method to heal and come back from mistakes as well as mitigate the chip from ranged enemies. Every class can use this, but, it still would require you to move forward and get into combat to benefit from it. Letting you slowly crawl back up and stabilize. 

Then perks like Invigorating Icon and Unmatched Zeal now become a supplement to healing, rather than "must picks" on higher difficulty levels. And would keep things relatively balanced. General swarm enemies would heal you through combat and do it slowly, but Extremis and Terminus level enemies would require a perk, but do raw larger percent heals on executes/kills.

There could be other methods added to make more general heal methods, but I wanted to focus on this method in particular, as I said, it gives every class a general method to get back health and not have so much weight on abilities, class perks and stimms. Letting them retain their value.

No to regen on minoris but yes to majoris. There are way WAY too many minoris to justify regen off them, that would be simply too good given they are an easy source of armor restore which is their entire reason to exist really.

I firmly believe that a utilization of the contested health mechanic is a must to make health restore not feel "too easy." To that end I think you should get 5% contested health from finishing majoris (be it melee execute or gunstrike finisher) you then just need to smack something to convert that contested health, 10% contested from extremis and recover 10% health from terminus. Little trickles of health here and there are what the game needs, not a constant flow.

Another alternative which would be much more potent is to incentivize actually performing combo finishers, granting 1% contested health for a heavy attack, 2% for combo 1, 4% for combo 2, and 5% for combo 3 (some weapons have a combo 4 that would give 8% for having to go so deep into a combo chain). The basic light attack combo would just provide 3% for performing the full combo. Exceptions would need to be made for things like thunder hammer and heavy of course, those would simply have 2% for heavy attacks and 3% for combos. yeah that means heavy only really gets 2% but his stomp is one of the best CCs in the game, it is basically like a concussion grenade.

Like I said, I think the best solution is to have majoris+ executes generate contested health that is then up to the player to convert efficiently. That way the culture of sharing executes that already exists is further incentivized.

Regardless I do agree that all classes should have access to some means of self-heal so they can A: pick themselves up out of bad situations without having to use the limited stim supply we are given B: actually make good use of those perks that only activate when your health falls below 30% or 35% meaning you can intentionally fall below that level and then recover to have the perk trigger again if you need it. Right now those "emergency" perks are kinda useless as they don't usually actually help in an emergency and nobody plays around their use because we have no healing lol.

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

No to regen on minoris but yes to majoris. There are way WAY too many minoris to justify regen off them, that would be simply too good given they are an easy source of armor restore which is their entire reason to exist really.

I firmly believe that a utilization of the contested health mechanic is a must to make health restore not feel "too easy." To that end I think you should get 5% contested health from finishing majoris (be it melee execute or gunstrike finisher) you then just need to smack something to convert that contested health, 10% contested from extremis and recover 10% health from terminus. Little trickles of health here and there are what the game needs, not a constant flow.

Another alternative which would be much more potent is to incentivize actually performing combo finishers, granting 1% contested health for a heavy attack, 2% for combo 1, 4% for combo 2, and 5% for combo 3 (some weapons have a combo 4 that would give 8% for having to go so deep into a combo chain). The basic light attack combo would just provide 3% for performing the full combo. Exceptions would need to be made for things like thunder hammer and heavy of course, those would simply have 2% for heavy attacks and 3% for combos. yeah that means heavy only really gets 2% but his stomp is one of the best CCs in the game, it is basically like a concussion grenade.

Like I said, I think the best solution is to have majoris+ executes generate contested health that is then up to the player to convert efficiently. That way the culture of sharing executes that already exists is further incentivized.

Regardless I do agree that all classes should have access to some means of self-heal so they can A: pick themselves up out of bad situations without having to use the limited stim supply we are given B: actually make good use of those perks that only activate when your health falls below 30% or 35% meaning you can intentionally fall below that level and then recover to have the perk trigger again if you need it. Right now those "emergency" perks are kinda useless as they don't usually actually help in an emergency and nobody plays around their use because we have no healing lol.

Considering the only way to execute a non ranged gaunt and Tzaangor is to counter a bluespark attack. I see no reason why doing so shouldn't grant a 5%ish contested health value on a minoris. Even if there was an internal cooldown of say 5 seconds or so to prevent this from over stacking. And even ranged minors that you can execute are never saved or properly used to regen said armour (as they function now). There are no back to back minoris counters that are happening. Not to mention everything around you gets pushed back as well to give you some breathing room. So the length of contested health would need to be increased to make the execution have a point and not fade right as you regain control of your character. As I said, the only enemies you can put into execute state are ranged enemies as well as Majoris and up. And the ranged enemies (Cultists) on Chaos cannot be executed nor even countered in any fashion.

You can just shoot their bodies a bit and they will turn red.

An internal cooldown is an interesting direction though. Maybe could work if minoris finishers provided 5% contested health on a... I want to say 20 second cooldown seems about right given their numbers and assuming you can get contested health from majoris with no cooldown that seems fair.

Perhaps in regards to the minoris angle instead we go with 10 minoris kills in rapid succession to gain 5% contested health? Instead of requiring a finisher and then put that on a 15 second cooldown. That way those pesky cultists that cannot be executed but can be mowed down in droves provide something where currently they are pure chip damage and sometimes a lot at that if it tosses a 20 man squad at you. Then to accompany that you add on the 5% contested per majoris finisher, 10% contested per extremis finisher and 10%  health on terminus and you have a fairly comprehensive rally system that would then mean doing away with Icon's heal entirely (maybe replace it with it providing an armor boost meaning the banner drops and you get full armor + blue bars instantly... that would still warrant the 50% CD nerf it currently has IMO.

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

You can just shoot their bodies a bit and they will turn red.

An internal cooldown is an interesting direction though. Maybe could work if minoris finishers provided 5% contested health on a... I want to say 20 second cooldown seems about right given their numbers and assuming you can get contested health from majoris with no cooldown that seems fair.

Perhaps in regards to the minoris angle instead we go with 10 minoris kills in rapid succession to gain 5% contested health? Instead of requiring a finisher and then put that on a 15 second cooldown. That way those pesky cultists that cannot be executed but can be mowed down in droves provide something where currently they are pure chip damage and sometimes a lot at that if it tosses a 20 man squad at you. Then to accompany that you add on the 5% contested per majoris finisher, 10% contested per extremis finisher and 10%  health on terminus and you have a fairly comprehensive rally system that would then mean doing away with Icon's heal entirely (maybe replace it with it providing an armor boost meaning the banner drops and you get full armor + blue bars instantly... that would still warrant the 50% CD nerf it currently has IMO.

The ranged Gaunts can be executed with enough body damage, yes. But the melee ones just out right die regardless of body shots. They have to be countered, which still counts as an execution. But the typical method of "do enough damage then walk up and execute" is for ranged Gaunts and Majoris and up. Melee Gaunts are an exception to this. And that system of kill X number to get X amount of health is already built into some weapons as a perk.