survivability perk

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

6 months ago

Sep 13, 2024, 7:08:02 PM

issue

the game takes away player's self-confidence in combat by making them reliant on depletable factors (stimulants, relics, and sometimes long-cooldown abilities), making them feel like they are only as strong as their inventory, and not able to fully own up to every victory or death. it makes the combat feel way too survival-focused rather than offense-focused.

it hinders combat flow and player's ability to persevere in long-term thru their skill alone. it also draws their attention from immersing themselves in the battlefield in favor of making them look around every corner for these depletable items.

(and besides, being downed while still having legs and being alive doesn't feel like being a space marine)

solution

"self-reliance" perk (or "swordsman's zeal" if you prefer perk name form Space Marine 1):

upsides:
- makes the player regain health upon every melee strike proportionally to dealt damage

downsides:
- makes the player unable to use stimulants, armor boosts, and relics
- player dies upon going down

additional:
- if player chooses to unequip their ability item (auspex, jump pack, grapnel, banner, camo, or iron halo), the healing from this perk increases

(this perk would be especially important for bulwark and vanguard, and would make the combat as good as Space Marine 1, or even better than it if SM2 marines would stop being too weak to swing chainsword normally)

perk tree implementation

in the current state of the game, I'd implement it by adding a "survivability" perk column, making it a 1 of 3 perks in it.
an option to unequip special ability would also need to be implemented.

"my experience with Space Marine 2" section of a thread I posted here explains why this perk is so needed.

Updated a day ago.

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Bigboyjarvis

Space Marine Lieutenant

Idk what this is

Bigboyjarvis

Space Marine Lieutenant

9 400g2g pts

6 months ago

Sep 14, 2024, 8:33:57 PM

This is going to sound mean, but this is ultimately a skill issue. There is no point in this game where you are forced to use any pickups other than ammo, and even then certain class perks refill your ammo reserve. You can complete the hardest difficulties, sometimes with no issues, by not picking up stims, relics, or grenades. This all comes down to learning the parry/dodge system and knowing when to not just throw yourself into a big group of enemies, as well as prioritizing enemies. The item pickups are only there to make the game easier for you and take stress away from upcoming parts of the mission.

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

suffer not the alien to live

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

6 months ago

Sep 15, 2024, 12:36:39 AM

Bigboyjarvis wrote:
This is going to sound mean, but this is ultimately a skill issue. There is no point in this game where you are forced to use any pickups other than ammo, and even then certain class perks refill your ammo reserve. You can complete the hardest difficulties, sometimes with no issues, by not picking up stims, relics, or grenades. This all comes down to learning the parry/dodge system and knowing when to not just throw yourself into a big group of enemies, as well as prioritizing enemies. The item pickups are only there to make the game easier for you and take stress away from upcoming parts of the mission.

how is it a skill issue if the issue isn't even about challenge level? it is about how the game feels, and as you've mentioned, forces the player to play less aggressively and never take risk. even if being inventory reliant is not required, the game still incentivizes the player to be inventory reliant, and that's what matters.

Updated 6 months ago.

Kiiyor

Newcomer

Kiiyor

Newcomer

300g2g pts

6 months ago

Sep 15, 2024, 7:14:45 AM

Brother_Phobos wrote:

Bigboyjarvis wrote:
This is going to sound mean, but this is ultimately a skill issue. There is no point in this game where you are forced to use any pickups other than ammo, and even then certain class perks refill your ammo reserve. You can complete the hardest difficulties, sometimes with no issues, by not picking up stims, relics, or grenades. This all comes down to learning the parry/dodge system and knowing when to not just throw yourself into a big group of enemies, as well as prioritizing enemies. The item pickups are only there to make the game easier for you and take stress away from upcoming parts of the mission.
how is it a skill issue if the issue isn't even about challenge level? it is about how the game feels, and as you've mentioned, forces the player to play less aggressively and never take risk

This.

In PVE, I miss the power fantasy of SM1, and the SM2 campaign. It feels like going from the Iron Man MK-Modern armour to the suit he built in a cave.

Skill is certainly an issue, but there are so many unforgiving mechanics that are frustrating more than fun in higher difficulties, especially if you're not running a super meta loadout. Even with some multi-meta in your team or a well build tac marine, if there are difficulty spikes with a big spawn in a mission, and you get caught even a tiny bit out of position, you can't face your foes head on - you instead have to play roll-marine to bravely get yourself to a position where you can frantically fall back and whittle down the hordes.

I can run higher difficulty mission sure, if I get a complimentary team, but.... it's way more fun to run lower.

Metis

Newcomer

Metis

Newcomer

400g2g pts

5 months ago

Oct 15, 2024, 7:13:42 PM

The character skill is not called an ultimate so I don't understand why you are using that terminology, on top of that the deliberate choice to make HP harder to recover in SM2 compared to SM1 is balanced by the fact you play around armor, roll to dodge incoming fire and have both melee and ranged options, as well as gun strikes to quickly recover armor and execute enemies.

The game is balanced as is, if you want to play SM1 then play SM1 and stop complaining that SM2 is not the same way that a 13 year old game, which was created during a very different era of game design.

Updated 5 months ago.

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

suffer not the alien to live

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

5 months ago

Oct 16, 2024, 7:45:41 PM

Metis wrote:
The character skill is not called an ultimate so I don't understand why you are using that terminology, on top of that the deliberate choice to make HP harder to recover in SM2 compared to SM1 is balanced by the fact you play around armor, roll to dodge incoming fire and have both melee and ranged options, as well as gun strikes to quickly recover armor and execute enemies.

The game is balanced as is, if you want to play SM1 then play SM1 and stop complaining that SM2 is not the same way that a 13 year old game, which was created during a very different era of game design.

it's just a stupid word. call it whatever. what does dodging and parrying compensating the lack of swordsman's zeal have to do with removing self-reliance by introduction of stimulants, relics, down system, and long-cooldown abilities? they could at least replace those with a bit more of self-sustainability.

Updated 5 months ago.

freshasmint420

G4M3R Focused

"Into the Fires of Battle, Unto the Anvil of War."

freshasmint420

G4M3R Focused

2 000g2g pts

19 days ago

Feb 17, 2025, 9:05:41 PM

Its funny that you think space marine 2 is only operations when there's a huge pvp community on space marine 2 and with the things your suggesting as I've completed absolute more than 300 times mate that this is preposterous and we the players need this type of gameplay. We Can't have everything handed to us we have to make the best of what we got in game and make do with what we got.. that makes me feel like a true space marine in battle The Struggle is what makes it fun, the losses and the lessons after each match is fun for me I like the difficulty of finding medpacks specifically for the healer on my squad who needs it when he drops his banner on the bro. The class bulwark/apothecary same thing both healers just one has a backpack with two arms. And one has a shield. Both healers specifically meant for buffs and heals which the bulwark does. He continuously regenerates armour for the squad and reviving while giving a damage boost and a damage resistance.

freshasmint420

G4M3R Focused

"Into the Fires of Battle, Unto the Anvil of War."

freshasmint420

G4M3R Focused

2 000g2g pts

19 days ago

Feb 17, 2025, 9:12:34 PM

Kiiyor wrote:

Brother_Phobos wrote:

Bigboyjarvis wrote:
This is going to sound mean, but this is ultimately a skill issue. There is no point in this game where you are forced to use any pickups other than ammo, and even then certain class perks refill your ammo reserve. You can complete the hardest difficulties, sometimes with no issues, by not picking up stims, relics, or grenades. This all comes down to learning the parry/dodge system and knowing when to not just throw yourself into a big group of enemies, as well as prioritizing enemies. The item pickups are only there to make the game easier for you and take stress away from upcoming parts of the mission.
how is it a skill issue if the issue isn't even about challenge level? it is about how the game feels, and as you've mentioned, forces the player to play less aggressively and never take risk
This.

In PVE, I miss the power fantasy of SM1, and the SM2 campaign. It feels like going from the Iron Man MK-Modern armour to the suit he built in a cave.

Skill is certainly an issue, but there are so many unforgiving mechanics that are frustrating more than fun in higher difficulties, especially if you're not running a super meta loadout. Even with some multi-meta in your team or a well build tac marine, if there are difficulty spikes with a big spawn in a mission, and you get caught even a tiny bit out of position, you can't face your foes head on - you instead have to play roll-marine to bravely get yourself to a position where you can frantically fall back and whittle down the hordes.

I can run higher difficulty mission sure, if I get a complimentary team, but.... it's way more fun to run lower.

Why does everyone compare space marine 1 and 2 it's not one it's Two like seriously if this community wants to come together to help build a great game then they can't wish for everything they want they must work with the community to build it the way everyone wants it.

We all paid forthe game not just the slow gamers who like it easy. I'm a Veteran gamer who loves the challenge and how bro put it is how it is. You don't need the pickups you need to pick yourself up bro. Learn to play the game as best you can to prevent yourself from wanting iron mans suit. What you'd want is for a bigger fan base on space marine 2 and that is to go inbetween the lines of the communities ideas and meet in the middle.. we don't need easier classes or better perks we need better players who understand a new learning curve.

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

suffer not the alien to live

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

18 days ago

Feb 19, 2025, 7:21:55 AM

freshasmint420 wrote:
Its funny that you think space marine 2 is only operations when there's a huge pvp community on space marine 2 and with the things your suggesting as I've completed absolute more than 300 times mate that this is preposterous and we the players need this type of gameplay. We Can't have everything handed to us we have to make the best of what we got in game and make do with what we got.. that makes me feel like a true space marine in battle The Struggle is what makes it fun, the losses and the lessons after each match is fun for me I like the difficulty of finding medpacks specifically for the healer on my squad who needs it when he drops his banner on the bro. The class bulwark/apothecary same thing both healers just one has a backpack with two arms. And one has a shield. Both healers specifically meant for buffs and heals which the bulwark does. He continuously regenerates armour for the squad and reviving while giving a damage boost and a damage resistance.

the struggle of not being self-reliant is the opposite of fun, as it hinders the power fantasy which is what SM franchise is all about. we both want the game to have more challenge, but the difference between us is that i want the game to focus on challenging me with true difficulty of battle from superhuman's perspective, while you want the game to focus on fake difficulty of doing annoying chores of looking around every corner and playing a long waiting game for your ability to recharge.

Updated 18 days ago.

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

suffer not the alien to live

Brother_Phobos

Battle brother

18 days ago

Feb 19, 2025, 7:24:23 AM

freshasmint420 wrote:

Kiiyor wrote:

Brother_Phobos wrote:

Bigboyjarvis wrote:
This is going to sound mean, but this is ultimately a skill issue. There is no point in this game where you are forced to use any pickups other than ammo, and even then certain class perks refill your ammo reserve. You can complete the hardest difficulties, sometimes with no issues, by not picking up stims, relics, or grenades. This all comes down to learning the parry/dodge system and knowing when to not just throw yourself into a big group of enemies, as well as prioritizing enemies. The item pickups are only there to make the game easier for you and take stress away from upcoming parts of the mission.
how is it a skill issue if the issue isn't even about challenge level? it is about how the game feels, and as you've mentioned, forces the player to play less aggressively and never take risk
This.

In PVE, I miss the power fantasy of SM1, and the SM2 campaign. It feels like going from the Iron Man MK-Modern armour to the suit he built in a cave.

Skill is certainly an issue, but there are so many unforgiving mechanics that are frustrating more than fun in higher difficulties, especially if you're not running a super meta loadout. Even with some multi-meta in your team or a well build tac marine, if there are difficulty spikes with a big spawn in a mission, and you get caught even a tiny bit out of position, you can't face your foes head on - you instead have to play roll-marine to bravely get yourself to a position where you can frantically fall back and whittle down the hordes.

I can run higher difficulty mission sure, if I get a complimentary team, but.... it's way more fun to run lower.
Why does everyone compare space marine 1 and 2 it's not one it's Two like seriously if this community wants to come together to help build a great game then they can't wish for everything they want they must work with the community to build it the way everyone wants it.
We all paid forthe game not just the slow gamers who like it easy. I'm a Veteran gamer who loves the challenge and how bro put it is how it is. You don't need the pickups you need to pick yourself up bro. Learn to play the game as best you can to prevent yourself from wanting iron mans suit. What you'd want is for a bigger fan base on space marine 2 and that is to go inbetween the lines of the communities ideas and meet in the middle.. we don't need easier classes or better perks we need better players who understand a new learning curve.

perhaps because both of them are about space marines, and to convey the accurate experience of being one power fantasy is a hard requirement. if the game's to achieve it, there's no meeting in the middle.

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