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Sesserdrix wrote:

If the concern is that Heavy is doing too much damage, lower the damage. I would gladly go for less damage if it meant I could fire more.

Hell no! I agree with everything except this.

I'm a little disappointed that the Heavy Plasma Incinerator lost the weapon perk for faster projectile speed. That could completely change the weapon, because it would stop acting like being a grenade launcher with plasma drop, and became more like any other weapon and you just pointed exactly where you wanted to shoot.

If you didn't like it, you didn't have to take that perk because it was the very last perk of the bottom row, so you had to significantly invest to get it.

I made an account just so I could reply to this. I totally agree with you when I play heavy I want to be shooting as much as possible. Perks that want me to stomp my feet make no sense to me on a class whose weapon is literally "the pride of the armory". I'd really like to see the prestige perks focus ammo regen right now it looks like they only added the one and its for your secondary.

here are my suggestions:

specifically for the heavy plasma launcher and multi melta, something along the lines of damage absorbed by iron halo is converted to ammunition since those weapons are energy based it makes sense to me that they could be "recharged" from enemy damage. it doesn't have to be a lot of ammunition, it could just be like 5 rounds max per iron halo. there could also be a contention that the iron halo can't be shutoff to get the recharges, or it has to fully break from enemy damage to balance it out. For the heavy bolter it could be ammo regen for melee damage done.

I would also like to see a perk for the heavy bolter so it doesn't have a spool up time, its just starts out firing at the maximum fire rate.

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G07hmog wrote:

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Sesserdrix wrote:

If the concern is that Heavy is doing too much damage, lower the damage. I would gladly go for less damage if it meant I could fire more.

Hell no! I agree with everything except this.

I’ll add this here because it seems suitable. Add Combat Knife (balanced or block variant) to the heavy bolt rifle loadout, to incentivise taking it and fill the fantasy of a heavy intercessor. 

Some of the melee perks could be reworked into something more akin to the playstyle. But I do think some of them are interesting. Like no stagger on stomps and 100% more melee damage on the stomp to instant clear a horde of Minoris.

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northshire wrote:

For the heavy bolter it could be ammo regen for melee damage done.

Please nothing like this, forcing Heavy into melee to make the class flow correctly just turns it into any of the other classes that supplement ammo capacity with time in melee. the solution should meld into the way the class plays as a shooting class. Something like "returns x% of shots hit to the ammo reserve" kind of like what stalker bolt rifles have.

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Sesserdrix wrote:

If the concern is that Heavy is doing too much damage, lower the damage. I would gladly go for less damage if it meant I could fire more.

What concern are we talking about here? From what I have heard, tactical and bulwark are the classes that are over-performing, not heavy, so I do not see the point of advocating for this perspective.

Also made an account just for this.

When i saw the leaked prestige perks months ago i really hoped they werent going to be true, then came my utter disappointment. Why on terra would a HEAVY RANGED DAMAGE CLASS have most of its perks focusing melee in a non factor way?

Why not at the very least affect parry windows or no knock back on gunstrikes?

Maybe primary ammo for every extremis and up kill, IE rewarding a heavy for doin heavy stuff.

Maybe a % health back on damage taken from iron halo? Or extra armor regen for killing stuff using heavy weapons?

Maybe make GRAVIS armor actually gravis with more damage reduction and armor (not just 10 seconds after iron halo)

Tactical which has no issues with ammo, gets an ammo perk, and gets incentivized to take every ammo box to restore their auspex.

Did they take more than 5 seconds to review this stuff?

Also Heavy plasma incinerator got nerfed with their perk reword, you can no longer have recharge, ammo, and efficiency anymore. But hey, at least we can stomp a tiny bit more effectively?

Killed my interest to play my favorite class.

​Does anyone know if the prestige perks are organized in a tree that you have to progress through, or can you choose any perk you like?

I will be the first to say I am not again the heavy having a melee playstyle. In fact, I think the current heavy melee style doesn't go far enough! ​

I understand a lot peoples frustration. In fact, I know I am in the minority here. But I think a compromise can be made! 

In short, the issue is that too many of heavys prestige perks are centered around melee. This is something I agree with. Out of the seven prestige perks, 4 perks are melee focused! And only 1 has anything to do with shooting (kind of!) 

It is to my belief that many of the melee perks should just be merged. This way, we can have 2 perks that can have completely new effects that can assuage our heavy brothers, while also allowing melee bros like me to have some refreshing fun. 

First, merge overcharge with exponential force! There is no reason to ever not take these two perks together as a melee heavy, as this is what allows the heavy to reach some sweet sweets breakpoints. 

The same thing can be said about best defence and perseverance. The assault already has a perk that works identically. If it works there, it works here. By doing this, we maintain the niche that is a melee heavy, while allowing the developers 2 perks left for actual shoot bang bang stuff. 

That said, I also want to make a suggestion that may or may not cause the heavy to become an actual melee character - let us use the combat knife when we are not using a heavy stance weapon. I understand with how the heavy melee perks work right now, this might be a little... Busted. But if we have to trade the overwhelming firepower of the heavy weapons for the hbr (which imo have only a fraction of the other options power anyway), we might as well get a little something in return as well. Opening this option for the heavy will make it a funny little build that may not be the best build for efficiency, but for people like me an enjoyable possibility. This was already accomplished in astartes mod (which also allows for a block heavy melee as funny and busted as that is!), and it was just a cool way that did not make the heavy op or anything! 

I can understand a lot of folks frustration. But i implore you to not immediately toss out the idea of playing a class in a way that is not conventional. As I was playing the PTS as a melee heavy, I knew I did not make a mistake when I build a melee heavy all those patches ago - it just needed a little more oomph for it to be less memey and more viable. And the prestige perks accomplished just that. 

Instead of removing the melee perks, consolidate them so we do not need so many perks just to make a funny niche build. 

Feedback for the remaining perks

Auxiliary ammunition: a great choice in concept but I think once again this only benefits weapon variants with a large reserve or magazine size. But that's another topic entirely. 

Conviction: amazing perk. Synergies well with adamant will. Great for general usage and also melee heavy. 

Restorative capacity: awful. This is essentially like snipers pre buff perk of similar nature. Status is at its worst just a hindrance. I see no situation where I would ever consider taking this perk. I think it should be different from snipers version, as heavy doesn't have any problem with chp regen anyway. What if we make this spicy? In the likelihood of heavy not getting an actual melee weapon, let this perk alter heavys melee into a block type weapon. Block is genuinely some of the best mechanic in the game, and it's a shame that one character cannot use this at all! While it might be just a little... Busted to be able to melee this well on the heavy, I still don't think this will allow the heavy melee to be on par with assaults nuke jetpack or tactical auspex chainsword. ​

I hope folks can agree with me on the consolidation idea. At the very least, we should have two perks that allows for this niche style to be playable, and the rest should play into heavies strength and unique skills, the Iron halo. Why not give us a perk that makes the Iron halo 360 shield? Or have it cover an even great area? Or give additional buffs to the team? The heavy is one of the most well balanced classes, but allowing us to have more fun is important too. I hope others can see what potential a melee heavy can have. 

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KittyChillder wrote:

I will be the first to say I am not again the heavy having a melee playstyle. In fact, I think the current heavy melee style doesn't go far enough! ​

I understand a lot peoples frustration. In fact, I know I am in the minority here. But I think a compromise can be made! 

In short, the issue is that too many of heavys prestige perks are centered around melee. This is something I agree with. Out of the seven prestige perks, 4 perks are melee focused! And only 1 has anything to do with shooting (kind of!) 

It is to my belief that many of the melee perks should just be merged. This way, we can have 2 perks that can have completely new effects that can assuage our heavy brothers, while also allowing melee bros like me to have some refreshing fun. 

First, merge overcharge with exponential force! There is no reason to ever not take these two perks together as a melee heavy, as this is what allows the heavy to reach some sweet sweets breakpoints. 

The same thing can be said about best defence and perseverance. The assault already has a perk that works identically. If it works there, it works here. By doing this, we maintain the niche that is a melee heavy, while allowing the developers 2 perks left for actual shoot bang bang stuff. 

That said, I also want to make a suggestion that may or may not cause the heavy to become an actual melee character - let us use the combat knife when we are not using a heavy stance weapon. I understand with how the heavy melee perks work right now, this might be a little... Busted. But if we have to trade the overwhelming firepower of the heavy weapons for the hbr (which imo have only a fraction of the other options power anyway), we might as well get a little something in return as well. Opening this option for the heavy will make it a funny little build that may not be the best build for efficiency, but for people like me an enjoyable possibility. This was already accomplished in astartes mod (which also allows for a block heavy melee as funny and busted as that is!), and it was just a cool way that did not make the heavy op or anything! 

I can understand a lot of folks frustration. But i implore you to not immediately toss out the idea of playing a class in a way that is not conventional. As I was playing the PTS as a melee heavy, I knew I did not make a mistake when I build a melee heavy all those patches ago - it just needed a little more oomph for it to be less memey and more viable. And the prestige perks accomplished just that. 

Instead of removing the melee perks, consolidate them so we do not need so many perks just to make a funny niche build. 

Feedback for the remaining perks

Auxiliary ammunition: a great choice in concept but I think once again this only benefits weapon variants with a large reserve or magazine size. But that's another topic entirely. 

Conviction: amazing perk. Synergies well with adamant will. Great for general usage and also melee heavy. 

Restorative capacity: awful. This is essentially like snipers pre buff perk of similar nature. Status is at its worst just a hindrance. I see no situation where I would ever consider taking this perk. I think it should be different from snipers version, as heavy doesn't have any problem with chp regen anyway. What if we make this spicy? In the likelihood of heavy not getting an actual melee weapon, let this perk alter heavys melee into a block type weapon. Block is genuinely some of the best mechanic in the game, and it's a shame that one character cannot use this at all! While it might be just a little... Busted to be able to melee this well on the heavy, I still don't think this will allow the heavy melee to be on par with assaults nuke jetpack or tactical auspex chainsword. ​

I hope folks can agree with me on the consolidation idea. At the very least, we should have two perks that allows for this niche style to be playable, and the rest should play into heavies strength and unique skills, the Iron halo. Why not give us a perk that makes the Iron halo 360 shield? Or have it cover an even great area? Or give additional buffs to the team? The heavy is one of the most well balanced classes, but allowing us to have more fun is important too. I hope others can see what potential a melee heavy can have. 

I appreciate the genuine enthusiasm that this post has, but no, I do not want the Heavy class to be just another stop for melee tourists that want to make their rounds through all of the classes. Out of the 6 classes, this is the only one that lacks a melee weapon (which is a feature not a bug) allowing the DEVs to justify making its ranged capabilities and ammo reserves broad enough to support a ranged playstyle, or at least it would if sentiments like the above did not exist. 

I know this comes off as a bit gate-keeperish but you have 5 other classes to play if you want a slash/smack into bang flow to the game, please leave my one dakka class alone.

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Liiff wrote:

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KittyChillder wrote:

I will be the first to say I am not again the heavy having a melee playstyle. In fact, I think the current heavy melee style doesn't go far enough! ​

I understand a lot peoples frustration. In fact, I know I am in the minority here. But I think a compromise can be made! 

In short, the issue is that too many of heavys prestige perks are centered around melee. This is something I agree with. Out of the seven prestige perks, 4 perks are melee focused! And only 1 has anything to do with shooting (kind of!) 

It is to my belief that many of the melee perks should just be merged. This way, we can have 2 perks that can have completely new effects that can assuage our heavy brothers, while also allowing melee bros like me to have some refreshing fun. 

First, merge overcharge with exponential force! There is no reason to ever not take these two perks together as a melee heavy, as this is what allows the heavy to reach some sweet sweets breakpoints. 

The same thing can be said about best defence and perseverance. The assault already has a perk that works identically. If it works there, it works here. By doing this, we maintain the niche that is a melee heavy, while allowing the developers 2 perks left for actual shoot bang bang stuff. 

That said, I also want to make a suggestion that may or may not cause the heavy to become an actual melee character - let us use the combat knife when we are not using a heavy stance weapon. I understand with how the heavy melee perks work right now, this might be a little... Busted. But if we have to trade the overwhelming firepower of the heavy weapons for the hbr (which imo have only a fraction of the other options power anyway), we might as well get a little something in return as well. Opening this option for the heavy will make it a funny little build that may not be the best build for efficiency, but for people like me an enjoyable possibility. This was already accomplished in astartes mod (which also allows for a block heavy melee as funny and busted as that is!), and it was just a cool way that did not make the heavy op or anything! 

I can understand a lot of folks frustration. But i implore you to not immediately toss out the idea of playing a class in a way that is not conventional. As I was playing the PTS as a melee heavy, I knew I did not make a mistake when I build a melee heavy all those patches ago - it just needed a little more oomph for it to be less memey and more viable. And the prestige perks accomplished just that. 

Instead of removing the melee perks, consolidate them so we do not need so many perks just to make a funny niche build. 

Feedback for the remaining perks

Auxiliary ammunition: a great choice in concept but I think once again this only benefits weapon variants with a large reserve or magazine size. But that's another topic entirely. 

Conviction: amazing perk. Synergies well with adamant will. Great for general usage and also melee heavy. 

Restorative capacity: awful. This is essentially like snipers pre buff perk of similar nature. Status is at its worst just a hindrance. I see no situation where I would ever consider taking this perk. I think it should be different from snipers version, as heavy doesn't have any problem with chp regen anyway. What if we make this spicy? In the likelihood of heavy not getting an actual melee weapon, let this perk alter heavys melee into a block type weapon. Block is genuinely some of the best mechanic in the game, and it's a shame that one character cannot use this at all! While it might be just a little... Busted to be able to melee this well on the heavy, I still don't think this will allow the heavy melee to be on par with assaults nuke jetpack or tactical auspex chainsword. ​

I hope folks can agree with me on the consolidation idea. At the very least, we should have two perks that allows for this niche style to be playable, and the rest should play into heavies strength and unique skills, the Iron halo. Why not give us a perk that makes the Iron halo 360 shield? Or have it cover an even great area? Or give additional buffs to the team? The heavy is one of the most well balanced classes, but allowing us to have more fun is important too. I hope others can see what potential a melee heavy can have. 

I appreciate the genuine enthusiasm that this post has, but no, I do not want the Heavy class to be just another stop for melee tourists that want to make their rounds through all of the classes. Out of the 6 classes, this is the only one that lacks a melee weapon (which is a feature not a bug) allowing the DEVs to justify making its ranged capabilities and ammo reserves broad enough to support a ranged playstyle, or at least it would if sentiments like the above did not exist. 

I know this comes off as a bit gate-keeperish but you have 5 other classes to play if you want a slash/smack into bang flow to the game, please leave my one dakka class alone.

There is no reason why my idea would be in direct contradiction to what a lot of people would find reasonable. The consolidation of these melee centric perks would mean that players who do not want to engage in melee will still have plenty of choices left to pick from. And lets be honest here - I have played heavy with primarily just shooting. I mean, why wouldnt I? Thats the one thing he does the best at. But how many of you actually tried to play a melee heavy? No, its not the greatest thing considering what he can do, but it is also far from being viable on the highest difficulty. Why should I not be able to have more choices when it doesnt ruin other peoples fun? You can only have 4 prestige perks active at once anyway, why make every single one of them only aid in 1 type of gameplay? You wouldnt suggest that somehow by limiting our arsenal or having fewer weapons to paly with that the game is improved, would you? In that sense, a heavy with a melee option that does not in any way force you or any other players who do not want to engage with that playstyle is 100% an improvement to the game.

I already said i think the way saber has handled heavys prestige perk is far too limiting. Not only is it so for people like you who want to just shoot stuff, it is far too much for me as a melee guy. I want it as an option, but i dont want to dedicated all 4 of my prestige slots just so i can do some dumb niche thing. That said, it is completely unreasonable to just say my idea will not work in the current landscape.

This forum keeps rejecting my post as spam...good god even the platform for exchanging ideas about these perks could use some work....​

made the mistake to make a seperate thread instead of just posting here. 

the biggest crime imo is that you HAVE to take at least one melee prestigeperk. melee focused prestige perks on heavy, alright i guess, personally hate the playstyle of that, but if people are out there that want to do that, fine. but please do not make melee prestige perks mandatory on heavy. i want to have at least 5 that cover defences, shooting or support. 

heavy should have a selection for his "core focus" and maybe 1 prestige perk that eneables melee-heavy.

I'd like to add to the feedback on heavy here also!

Big thanks on fixing the death strike perk for Multi-Melta and now the Heavy bolt pistol too it looks like. Before this would only trigger on light attacks from weapon hits but now it triggers on light, heavy, and executes. Big thank you! Please keep this as we will see much more use of this perk now. 

Heavy is about big guns and range damage not melee perks are all wrong heavy is not a melee classes perks should be range damage and ammo maybe weapons cooling or something not kicking stuff

Absolutely agree with the rest of the guys that we should be able to focus just on the heavy weapons and not melee. They only melee I'd want to do is some move to push enemies away from me if I get swarmed.