​Greetings! Does Bulwark have different parry/block timings compared to other classes? Yesterday, I played this class after a long break and missed more than half of the enemy attacks that I could reliably parry/block as Tactical, Vanguard, Sniper, or Heavy.

bulwark parry has startup animation so ye you have to start parry/block a little bit earlier 

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

G07hmog wrote:

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

It's been a big complaint since launch. All classes should be consistent with 'the' key gameplay mechanic. It differs across difficulty, and enemy type too.

TL;DR: If parry on Bulwark is hard for you or doesn't feel right you have developed bad habits on the other classes and need to retrain your muscle memory, no nicer way to put it. But hey, the devs decided that we wanted perk resets for prestige so you get the chance to start over with an excuse to be bad for a bit while you relearn the timing.

Honestly... the timing is not actually different enough to matter IF you learn the correct timings and not the inflated fencing timings then rely on that. I know it is a hard pill to swallow but if parry on bulwark screws up your muscle memory your muscle memory has been developed with poor habits.

Best way to train your muscle memory is to use block weapons, if you can perfect block everything and hit the button on non-block weapons at the same time you will prefect parry. Perfect block is the smallest window but its frames start the same time as everything else.

As others have said hammering the parry button or holding the button are both bad habits so if you do either of those on other classes then play bulwark you will be punished for it. I don't care how many hours you have, if you spent those hours developing bad habits the only cure is forcing yourself to unlearn those habits. It will suck, and you may have to lower the difficulty for awhile until you get the hang of it, but it really isn't that hard. 

snowball_25 wrote:

G07hmog wrote:

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

It's been a big complaint since launch. All classes should be consistent with 'the' key gameplay mechanic. It differs across difficulty, and enemy type too.

​Yes, it has been a big complaint since day one. No, it has never been a complaint of mine likely because I started on Bulwark so my muscle memory is based on the timing of the class that supposedly causes the problem. It is a hard pill to swallow but it is literally a skill issue (I am not a person that says that to everyone that complains about something, I rarely say it at all because normally it is not constructive and just trolling. This is an exception because this is, indeed, an issue concerning skill) and no, no it is not different on other difficulties and enemy types (other than obviously different attacks have different timings same as any other game with a parry and dodge system) it is "different" in the Campaign vs Ops in that Campaign seemingly uses something between Balanced and Fencing which throws players for a loop since you start with a Balanced weapon in Ops so if you had developed bad habits in the 6-8 hours it takes most to beat the campaign on normal you were likely instantly punished in Ops and forced to re-learn the timing. Well it is the same thing with Bulwark, consider the class a secondary "bad habit" check.

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

TL;DR: If parry on Bulwark is hard for you or doesn't feel right you have developed bad habits on the other classes and need to retrain your muscle memory, no nicer way to put it. But hey, the devs decided that we wanted perk resets for prestige so you get the chance to start over with an excuse to be bad for a bit while you relearn the timing.

Honestly... the timing is not actually different enough to matter IF you learn the correct timings and not the inflated fencing timings then rely on that. I know it is a hard pill to swallow but if parry on bulwark screws up your muscle memory your muscle memory has been developed with poor habits.

Best way to train your muscle memory is to use block weapons, if you can perfect block everything and hit the button on non-block weapons at the same time you will prefect parry. Perfect block is the smallest window but its frames start the same time as everything else.

As others have said hammering the parry button or holding the button are both bad habits so if you do either of those on other classes then play bulwark you will be punished for it. I don't care how many hours you have, if you spent those hours developing bad habits the only cure is forcing yourself to unlearn those habits. It will suck, and you may have to lower the difficulty for awhile until you get the hang of it, but it really isn't that hard. 

snowball_25 wrote:

G07hmog wrote:

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

It's been a big complaint since launch. All classes should be consistent with 'the' key gameplay mechanic. It differs across difficulty, and enemy type too.

​Yes, it has been a big complaint since day one. No, it has never been a complaint of mine likely because I started on Bulwark so my muscle memory is based on the timing of the class that supposedly causes the problem. It is a hard pill to swallow but it is literally a skill issue (I am not a person that says that to everyone that complains about something, I rarely say it at all because normally it is not constructive and just trolling. This is an exception because this is, indeed, an issue concerning skill) and no, no it is not different on other difficulties and enemy types (other than obviously different attacks have different timings same as any other game with a parry and dodge system) it is "different" in the Campaign vs Ops in that Campaign seemingly uses something between Balanced and Fencing which throws players for a loop since you start with a Balanced weapon in Ops so if you had developed bad habits in the 6-8 hours it takes most to beat the campaign on normal you were likely instantly punished in Ops and forced to re-learn the timing. Well it is the same thing with Bulwark, consider the class a secondary "bad habit" check.

Agree with your logic, and thanks for not being the skill issue troll. Unfair to say a player has developed 'bad habits' from the campaign which is supposed to set you up to play the rest of the game then change the rest of game's timings for the sake of class identity/ difficulty. This is a fault that rests solely on poor development and a lack of testing. Blame shouldn't be put on the player's skill because it is nowhere intuitive, but yes once aware they can relearn/ adjust, but there's nowhere that actually communicates that to players (because Sabre probably didn't even know by not testing) so they're often left wondering wtf, like OP.  Once I watched some YouTube vids, I got a better sense of the timings with Bulwark for sure, but there's honestly no reason for it to exist.

But there is definitely a difference with the timings across most classes (excl vanguard) between Average/ Substantial/ Ruthless. I've tested this multiple times and I'm confident it exists. Very noticeable with minoris enemies and whip attacks.

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snowball_25 wrote:

G07hmog wrote:

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

It's been a big complaint since launch. All classes should be consistent with 'the' key gameplay mechanic. It differs across difficulty, and enemy type too.

I'm glad it is like that.  It gives each class its own flavor and style.  Makes each class unique. I don't want each class to feel exactly like the other. Like all of them are cookie cutter classes just with different weapons.  It takes a bit of retraining and playing with a class to get the feel for it.  Like when I switched from fencing to block weapons my muscle memory did not serve me well, I had to retrain my timing to adjust.

Seems like it's inconsistent compared to other classes. The chainsword is the only melee weapon that I find feels the same as other classes.

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Blobie wrote:

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snowball_25 wrote:

G07hmog wrote:

Why would they do this? It screws up my muscle memory.

It's been a big complaint since launch. All classes should be consistent with 'the' key gameplay mechanic. It differs across difficulty, and enemy type too.

I'm glad it is like that.  It gives each class its own flavor and style.  Makes each class unique. I don't want each class to feel exactly like the other. Like all of them are cookie cutter classes just with different weapons.  It takes a bit of retraining and playing with a class to get the feel for it.  Like when I switched from fencing to block weapons my muscle memory did not serve me well, I had to retrain my timing to adjust.

Hell no dude its a source of frustration because they're literally using the same weapons with the same stats. And it's clearly a bug because you used to take damage from a botched parry like this and you still do if the attack comes from behind you how is anyone defending this