Proposition to add some spice to Fencing and Balanced Weapons

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Shining_Darkness

Pointless violence Angry marine

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Shining_Darkness

Pointless violence Angry marine

11 900g2g pts

2 days ago

Apr 14, 2025, 12:06:25 AM

First off for more detailed breakdown I already made an Ideas post about this.

So Balanced weapons have no purpose, this has been said several times recently on the forums and I tend to agree. My proposal is to make their purpose "to make your ranged weapon perform better" after all if you are taking a fencing or block weapon chances are you are going to be melee attacking more than you will be shooting so surely the redheaded stepchild of weapon types should not even try to be a good melee weapon due to the other two being objectively better in most cases at that (no the meme Power Fist Bulwark build doesn't count). Make it have a charge system gained on perfect parry and heavy attack hit (one charge per attack) that buffs ranged damage and reduces spread for a short duration with a short cooldown after the buff wears off. To add incentive to get full charge before using make a full charge buff provide stagger/knockback immunity for a slightly longer duration than the damage portion of the buff but that will end before you can start getting stacks again. We'll call this charge system Focus.

Fencing does not need much, some would (wrongly) argue it doesn't need anything but I would say compared to Block weapons getting an up to 90% damage boost (only for 2.5 seconds, granted but still) and a 60% ranged damage resist... well Fencing should get something to increase interactivity and reduce "turn brain off" style fencing often encourages due to ease of perfect parry. Well worry not I am not suggesting we change the perfect parry nor give it inherently more damage. No I would like to propose it be the hyper-aggressive melee weapon type that encourages continuous combos to stunlock the enemy into submission under a rain of blows. Give it a charge system with 4 max stacks that is gained on perfect parry or combo finisher (after 2 or more light attacks or on the second heavy attack of a heavy combo) that stacks up to 4 times and has stack decay of 3 seconds per stack. Each stack provides 15% stagger/impact (whatever the devs call it on the backend) then at 4 stacks also gain 20% attack speed and 20% reduced charge prep time. You get no real damage boost from this but do potentially get a DPS increase with the attack speed as long as you can maintain the Momentum, which obviously is the name of this charge system.

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Rexipher

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Rexipher

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19 hours ago

Apr 15, 2025, 11:22:10 AM

Isn't Fencing weapons "spice" that you can get armour back from parrying minoris? Fencing weapons didn't use to have that from the start.

That's a super strong thing to have so I don't see much reason to add anything to Fencing weapons due to that.

It adds so much survivability that Block weapons don't offer.
So to compensate with that Block weapons give said damage boost.
So it's a players choice whether or not they want to have more survivability with armour regen or more damage but become more fragile.

I can't speak much for Balancing though since I haven't touched those in ages. ^^'

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Shining_Darkness

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Shining_Darkness

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4 hours ago

Apr 16, 2025, 1:52:24 AM

Rexipher wrote:
Isn't Fencing weapons "spice" that you can get armour back from parrying minoris? Fencing weapons didn't use to have that from the start.
That's a super strong thing to have so I don't see much reason to add anything to Fencing weapons due to that.
It adds so much survivability that Block weapons don't offer.
So to compensate with that Block weapons give said damage boost.
So it's a players choice whether or not they want to have more survivability with armour regen or more damage but become more fragile.

I can't speak much for Balancing though since I haven't touched those in ages. ^^'

No, that is just perfect parry in general. Balance weapons do that too. Getting 1 armor back from parries is not "super strong" that is a base mechanic. You are exactly the sort of player I was referring to in the actual idea post where I said some people will (wrongly) argue this isn't needed but this isn't even a good argument I expected far better than misunderstanding the core game mechanics.

Look, them giving Block weapons a buff effect is the only reason I am even suggesting any of this. Block weapons, IMO are just superior once you get the hang of them due to the temp ranged DR and temp damage buff and I need a reason to bother with the other two. If block weapons only gave armor and ranged DR we wouldn't be having this conversation but the fact they can get 90% damage increase on top of (generally) already having the highest base damage means frankly from a balance perspective AT LEAST Balance type weapons need something extra to make them not irrelevant. (as mentioned getting armor from minoris parries is just a base mechanic, so are you saying Balance weapons are "super strong" defensively because they can do that just like Fencing? No, of course you aren't because that is a terrible argument and I know you wouldn't say that on purpose)

The reason I targeted stagger/impact as the main bonus for fencing is because the enemies that matter get stagger immunity for a short duration after being staggered so it just lets you stagger them with less hits. The attack speed buff is in-line with existing weapon-perks and requires 4 stacks that decay after 3 seconds of not doing actions that maintain them and are not direct damage increases. 20% speed translates to about 1 more speed pip on the backend assuming starting at 5+ or more, not really that impactful. 20% charge speed likewise is not really that impactful, it translates to about 0.2-0.3 seconds faster full charge on the power fist.

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snowball_25

Focused

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snowball_25

Focused

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3 hours ago

Apr 16, 2025, 2:52:39 AM

Shining_Darkness wrote:

Rexipher wrote:
Isn't Fencing weapons "spice" that you can get armour back from parrying minoris? Fencing weapons didn't use to have that from the start.
That's a super strong thing to have so I don't see much reason to add anything to Fencing weapons due to that.
It adds so much survivability that Block weapons don't offer.
So to compensate with that Block weapons give said damage boost.
So it's a players choice whether or not they want to have more survivability with armour regen or more damage but become more fragile.

I can't speak much for Balancing though since I haven't touched those in ages. ^^'
No, that is just perfect parry in general. Balance weapons do that too. Getting 1 armor back from parries is not "super strong" that is a base mechanic. You are exactly the sort of player I was referring to in the actual idea post where I said some people will (wrongly) argue this isn't needed but this isn't even a good argument I expected far better than misunderstanding the core game mechanics.

Look, them giving Block weapons a buff effect is the only reason I am even suggesting any of this. Block weapons, IMO are just superior once you get the hang of them due to the temp ranged DR and temp damage buff and I need a reason to bother with the other two. If block weapons only gave armor and ranged DR we wouldn't be having this conversation but the fact they can get 90% damage increase on top of (generally) already having the highest base damage means frankly from a balance perspective AT LEAST Balance type weapons need something extra to make them not irrelevant. (as mentioned getting armor from minoris parries is just a base mechanic, so are you saying Balance weapons are "super strong" defensively because they can do that just like Fencing? No, of course you aren't because that is a terrible argument and I know you wouldn't say that on purpose)

The reason I targeted stagger/impact as the main bonus for fencing is because the enemies that matter get stagger immunity for a short duration after being staggered so it just lets you stagger them with less hits. The attack speed buff is in-line with existing weapon-perks and requires 4 stacks that decay after 3 seconds of not doing actions that maintain them and are not direct damage increases. 20% speed translates to about 1 more speed pip on the backend assuming starting at 5+ or more, not really that impactful. 20% charge speed likewise is not really that impactful, it translates to about 0.2-0.3 seconds faster full charge on the power fist.

it'd be interesting to see how a shield-like mechanic would work when applied to the balance weapons. Like a 'hold your melee weapon up' in a shield like stance similar to bulwark, but instead of complete shielding, it would instead reduce enemy damage to armour + not lose control upon taking heavy hits. It'd be an interesting mechanic to give you a controlled escape out of corners or manoeuvre into a better position to take on a swarm of Majoris, rather than spamming dodge roll.

Updated 3 hours ago.

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Rexipher

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Rexipher

Fearless Angry marine

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2 hours ago

Apr 16, 2025, 3:54:49 AM

Shining_Darkness wrote:

No, that is just perfect parry in general. Balance weapons do that too. Getting 1 armor back from parries is not "super strong" that is a base mechanic. You are exactly the sort of player I was referring to in the actual idea post where I said some people will (wrongly) argue this isn't needed but this isn't even a good argument I expected far better than misunderstanding the core game mechanics.

Look, them giving Block weapons a buff effect is the only reason I am even suggesting any of this. Block weapons, IMO are just superior once you get the hang of them due to the temp ranged DR and temp damage buff and I need a reason to bother with the other two. If block weapons only gave armor and ranged DR we wouldn't be having this conversation but the fact they can get 90% damage increase on top of (generally) already having the highest base damage means frankly from a balance perspective AT LEAST Balance type weapons need something extra to make them not irrelevant. (as mentioned getting armor from minoris parries is just a base mechanic, so are you saying Balance weapons are "super strong" defensively because they can do that just like Fencing? No, of course you aren't because that is a terrible argument and I know you wouldn't say that on purpose)

The reason I targeted stagger/impact as the main bonus for fencing is because the enemies that matter get stagger immunity for a short duration after being staggered so it just lets you stagger them with less hits. The attack speed buff is in-line with existing weapon-perks and requires 4 stacks that decay after 3 seconds of not doing actions that maintain them and are not direct damage increases. 20% speed translates to about 1 more speed pip on the backend assuming starting at 5+ or more, not really that impactful. 20% charge speed likewise is not really that impactful, it translates to about 0.2-0.3 seconds faster full charge on the power fist.

Like I did mention in my post, I couldn't speak for Balanced weapons since I haven't touched them in ages.
When I last used any Balanced the armour regen on parrying Minoris wasn't implemented.

So looking back to as it used to be having armour regen on parrying minoris is a strong thing to have, yes.
Before you got nothing from blocking except not taking any damage and Fencing only gave you a larger parry window.
Armour regen on parry wasn't a "base mechanic" originally, it was added later on as a "spice".

Updated 2 hours ago.