Since saber do not wish to improve the Bolter Ammo altogether, and continue on this path by buffing damages percentages and perks reworks, so I suggest this is the only way that will improve Auto Bolt Rifle in the long run. I just wanted to put out some suggestion, and hopefully Saber would give some thought about this. I know I'm not an expert of balancing weapon, but I think this gun should at least have a suitable ground to shine.

1. One of the old perk from the Heavy Bolt pistol, "Close Combat" I think instead of throwing away, it should be given to this gun.

2. Rapid healing is too impractical, and it should replace to "Tactical Precision" to increase it performance for Headshot build.

3. Rampage perk require 10 kills are too much of a trouble for getting 25% damages boost, so reducing the amount of kills to 5 kills may help getting this perk active easily.

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Max_Will_It wrote:

Since saber do not wish to improve the Bolter Ammo altogether, and continue on this path by buffing damages percentages and perks reworks, so I suggest this is the only way that will improve Auto Bolt Rifle in the long run. I just wanted to put out some suggestion, and hopefully Saber would give some thought about this. I know I'm not an expert of balancing weapon, but I think this gun should at least have a suitable ground to shine.

1. One of the old perk from the Heavy Bolt pistol, "Close Combat" I think instead of throwing away, it should be given to this gun.

2. Rapid healing is too impractical, and it should replace to "Tactical Precision" to increase it performance for Headshot build.

3. Rampage perk require 10 kills are too much of a trouble for getting 25% damages boost, so reducing the amount of kills to 5 kills may help getting this perk active easily.

Rapid Healing and Rampage style perks should be lowered to 5 kills to it is a bit more achievable and the coolddown will keep those style perks in check. That said, I think there should be two paths more or less for it to take, Headshot damage and raw damage. Headshot path to clear Majoris easier, and the raw damage one to kill minoris easier. As even on standard tier, it can kill minoris in 1 headshot. The biggest issue it face, as a standard issue weapon, is how it is still exclusive to only the Tac. It needs to be on more classes.

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Barricade133 wrote:

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Max_Will_It wrote:

Since saber do not wish to improve the Bolter Ammo altogether, and continue on this path by buffing damages percentages and perks reworks, so I suggest this is the only way that will improve Auto Bolt Rifle in the long run. I just wanted to put out some suggestion, and hopefully Saber would give some thought about this. I know I'm not an expert of balancing weapon, but I think this gun should at least have a suitable ground to shine.

1. One of the old perk from the Heavy Bolt pistol, "Close Combat" I think instead of throwing away, it should be given to this gun.

2. Rapid healing is too impractical, and it should replace to "Tactical Precision" to increase it performance for Headshot build.

3. Rampage perk require 10 kills are too much of a trouble for getting 25% damages boost, so reducing the amount of kills to 5 kills may help getting this perk active easily.

Rapid Healing and Rampage style perks should be lowered to 5 kills to it is a bit more achievable and the coolddown will keep those style perks in check. That said, I think there should be two paths more or less for it to take, Headshot damage and raw damage. Headshot path to clear Majoris easier, and the raw damage one to kill minoris easier. As even on standard tier, it can kill minoris in 1 headshot. The biggest issue it face, as a standard issue weapon, is how it is still exclusive to only the Tac. It needs to be on more classes.

Yes, I am absolute agree with having more paths for more build. But because of the limited Mastery points, it only allow for two path or two styles.  And just like you said Headshot for Majoris or Raw damages to Minoris only. However, imho in the current 7.0 PTS both of them are pretty mid because they aren't enough perk for direct upgrade, and I suggest replace Rapid Healing for Tactical Precision, and Rampage to something entirely new that good at killing enemy in close range e.i Close Combat from Heavy Bolt pistol.

The entire weapon perk system is bad. It should have just been like the class perk system where each tier of weapon is one category of perks with 1 column in basic, 2 in master-crafted, 3 in artificer and 3 in relic with a 4th bonus point to spend on any of the tiers. Parallel trees with lock-out system sucks for variety since realistically there is only one optimal way to build every weapon due to the lack of mobility between the trees and some of the trees being just anemic due to limited perk points (like the auto bolter).

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

The entire weapon perk system is bad. It should have just been like the class perk system where each tier of weapon is one category of perks with 1 column in basic, 2 in master-crafted, 3 in artificer and 3 in relic with a 4th bonus point to spend on any of the tiers. Parallel trees with lock-out system sucks for variety since realistically there is only one optimal way to build every weapon due to the lack of mobility between the trees and some of the trees being just anemic due to limited perk points (like the auto bolter).

Yeah the fact every respec mean we have to exasperatingly re-picked all over again just to change ONE different branch of perks. So, it kinda dissuade us from respec the guns often. If you look at the old perks like Tyranids or Chaos Slayer, it meant they're suppose to be in some way wishes us to keep re-customize the guns to cater which types of enemy we're facing.

 No idea why Saber created like this, but for now, Saber have no intention to change this system, unless we have enough people's vote for a new idea to change the system entirely.

Honestly, I just want all Bolter guns become mid to great, and right now Auto Bolt Rilfe is NOT there yet.

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HN971 wrote:

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Max_Will_It wrote:

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

The entire weapon perk system is bad. It should have just been like the class perk system where each tier of weapon is one category of perks with 1 column in basic, 2 in master-crafted, 3 in artificer and 3 in relic with a 4th bonus point to spend on any of the tiers. Parallel trees with lock-out system sucks for variety since realistically there is only one optimal way to build every weapon due to the lack of mobility between the trees and some of the trees being just anemic due to limited perk points (like the auto bolter).

Yeah the fact every respec mean we have to exasperatingly re-picked all over again just to change ONE different branch of perks. So, it kinda dissuade us from respec the guns often. If you look at the old perks like Tyranids or Chaos Slayer, it meant they're suppose to be in some way wishes us to keep re-customize the guns to cater which types of enemy we're facing.

 No idea why Saber created like this, but for now, Saber have no intention to change this system, unless we have enough people's vote for a new idea to change the system entirely.

Honestly, I just want all Bolter guns become mid to great, and right now Auto Bolt Rilfe is NOT there yet.

The worst part of the Perk system is how the Loadout system doesn't take into account perks at all (both from characters and weapon) and every variants of the same weapon share the same perk build.
I hope you didn't plan on using the scoped and SMG variant of the bolt carbine regularly, or a block and fencing chainsword on different characters, because that mean you'll have to respec them every time you switch....

And that problem will get even worse with the Prestige Perks which will cost resources to respec (because Saber couldn't find of any other resource sink apparently).

This is just an awful oversight in design. Every Loadout should have an independent set of perks associated with it.

I get what you mean. Saber design for the Loadout system is too basic. They should've done something similarly to the Payday 2 that allow you to save different loadout for different builds. Since Prestige Respec cost are too steep players won't feel like changing and testing out often. 

Honestly, Prestige perks doesn't have alot of variety. So 10/10 people going to pick Meta over niche, so they might as well let us use all the perks but increase about 10 levels worth of Prestige so we can get the rest of the perks as well. 🤣 Might even expand the amount of time playing PVE.

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Max_Will_It wrote:

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HN971 wrote:

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Max_Will_It wrote:

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Shining_Darkness wrote:

The entire weapon perk system is bad. It should have just been like the class perk system where each tier of weapon is one category of perks with 1 column in basic, 2 in master-crafted, 3 in artificer and 3 in relic with a 4th bonus point to spend on any of the tiers. Parallel trees with lock-out system sucks for variety since realistically there is only one optimal way to build every weapon due to the lack of mobility between the trees and some of the trees being just anemic due to limited perk points (like the auto bolter).

Yeah the fact every respec mean we have to exasperatingly re-picked all over again just to change ONE different branch of perks. So, it kinda dissuade us from respec the guns often. If you look at the old perks like Tyranids or Chaos Slayer, it meant they're suppose to be in some way wishes us to keep re-customize the guns to cater which types of enemy we're facing.

 No idea why Saber created like this, but for now, Saber have no intention to change this system, unless we have enough people's vote for a new idea to change the system entirely.

Honestly, I just want all Bolter guns become mid to great, and right now Auto Bolt Rilfe is NOT there yet.

The worst part of the Perk system is how the Loadout system doesn't take into account perks at all (both from characters and weapon) and every variants of the same weapon share the same perk build.
I hope you didn't plan on using the scoped and SMG variant of the bolt carbine regularly, or a block and fencing chainsword on different characters, because that mean you'll have to respec them every time you switch....

And that problem will get even worse with the Prestige Perks which will cost resources to respec (because Saber couldn't find of any other resource sink apparently).

This is just an awful oversight in design. Every Loadout should have an independent set of perks associated with it.

I get what you mean. Saber design for the Loadout system is too basic. They should've done something similarly to the Payday 2 that allow you to save different loadout for different builds. Since Prestige Respec cost are too steep players won't feel like changing and testing out often. 

Honestly, Prestige perks doesn't have alot of variety. So 10/10 people going to pick Meta over niche, so they might as well let us use all the perks but increase about 10 levels worth of Prestige so we can get the rest of the perks as well. 🤣 Might even expand the amount of time playing PVE.

At least they did say they are working to improve the loadout system so maybe next patch we will finally get perk-based loadouts.

Barricade133 wrote:

In all honesty, only 3 perks need changing, and 1 changed to something else. They need to remove Great Might (10% more Terminus damage respectively) perk and replace it with some sort of raw damage perk like Divine Might. Or just have those two perks swapped outright in the position in the tree. Even just a flat 10% damage perk would do wonders for it. The other two perks that need changing, and this goes for any others like it, is to reduce the amount of kills needed from 10 down to 5. The cooldown already keeps these perks in check. Why have such a high requirement, and the health one has a maximum threshold you can heal up to to keep it in check as well?

​That exactly got be baffle me as well. Both Rampage and Rapid Health have to go through a great length just to get it active once. Both perks are too extremely situational and in turn too bothersome too care. If Saber DEADSET MUST HAVE THIS PERKS, this are the solution I can think of.

For Rapid Health, instead of holding off 30% health and nearing our dead, I suggest changing it to 70% below health and restore 5%, turning into a miniature Adrenaline Rush from Vanguard. Honestly, I don't want this gun become some sort of Survival gun because we have plenty of issue with the Bolter guns as a whole for being meh.

While Rampage reduce requirement of 10 kills to 5 kills with no cooldown will finally make this perk more viable. True is all Auto Bolt Rifle's perks are just too weak compare to the current PTS bolter so having cooldown are just in a way. 

Somewhere back in my mind I have the feeling SABER having some serious beef against the Auto Bolt Rifle. With the current patch note 7.0 PTS making me even more believe so.

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Max_Will_It wrote:

Barricade133 wrote:

In all honesty, only 3 perks need changing, and 1 changed to something else. They need to remove Great Might (10% more Terminus damage respectively) perk and replace it with some sort of raw damage perk like Divine Might. Or just have those two perks swapped outright in the position in the tree. Even just a flat 10% damage perk would do wonders for it. The other two perks that need changing, and this goes for any others like it, is to reduce the amount of kills needed from 10 down to 5. The cooldown already keeps these perks in check. Why have such a high requirement, and the health one has a maximum threshold you can heal up to to keep it in check as well?

​That exactly got be baffle me as well. Both Rampage and Rapid Health have to go through a great length just to get it active once. Both perks are too extremely situational and in turn too bothersome too care. If Saber DEADSET MUST HAVE THIS PERKS, this are the solution I can think of.

For Rapid Health, instead of holding off 30% health and nearing our dead, I suggest changing it to 70% below health and restore 5%, turning into a miniature Adrenaline Rush from Vanguard. Honestly, I don't want this gun become some sort of Survival gun because we have plenty of issue with the Bolter guns as a whole for being meh.

While Rampage reduce requirement of 10 kills to 5 kills with no cooldown will finally make this perk more viable. True is all Auto Bolt Rifle's perks are just too weak compare to the current PTS bolter so having cooldown are just in a way. 

Somewhere back in my mind I have the feeling SABER having some serious beef against the Auto Bolt Rifle. With the current patch note 7.0 PTS making me even more believe so.

It'd certainly be an option. Moving the topic aside for the moment regarding Rampage and Rapid health. Changing that one Terminus perk would instantly open up 3 different playstyles for the ABR. 1 for headshot builds as I said previous for Majoris. A raw damage one for minoris killing, or if that Terminus one was swapped out for raw damage. You could then go with a half and half on any of the four segments. The ABR is a middle of the pack weapon. A fact I am ok with as it has it's uses. But this (Terminus perk) is the thing I think that is holding it back. Even after the change it won't be shooting up to best gun by far, but at least it'd have way more playstyles open to it.

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Barricade133 wrote:

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Max_Will_It wrote:

Barricade133 wrote:

In all honesty, only 3 perks need changing, and 1 changed to something else. They need to remove Great Might (10% more Terminus damage respectively) perk and replace it with some sort of raw damage perk like Divine Might. Or just have those two perks swapped outright in the position in the tree. Even just a flat 10% damage perk would do wonders for it. The other two perks that need changing, and this goes for any others like it, is to reduce the amount of kills needed from 10 down to 5. The cooldown already keeps these perks in check. Why have such a high requirement, and the health one has a maximum threshold you can heal up to to keep it in check as well?

​That exactly got be baffle me as well. Both Rampage and Rapid Health have to go through a great length just to get it active once. Both perks are too extremely situational and in turn too bothersome too care. If Saber DEADSET MUST HAVE THIS PERKS, this are the solution I can think of.

For Rapid Health, instead of holding off 30% health and nearing our dead, I suggest changing it to 70% below health and restore 5%, turning into a miniature Adrenaline Rush from Vanguard. Honestly, I don't want this gun become some sort of Survival gun because we have plenty of issue with the Bolter guns as a whole for being meh.

While Rampage reduce requirement of 10 kills to 5 kills with no cooldown will finally make this perk more viable. True is all Auto Bolt Rifle's perks are just too weak compare to the current PTS bolter so having cooldown are just in a way. 

Somewhere back in my mind I have the feeling SABER having some serious beef against the Auto Bolt Rifle. With the current patch note 7.0 PTS making me even more believe so.

It'd certainly be an option. Moving the topic aside for the moment regarding Rampage and Rapid health. Changing that one Terminus perk would instantly open up 3 different playstyles for the ABR. 1 for headshot builds as I said previous for Majoris. A raw damage one for minoris killing, or if that Terminus one was swapped out for raw damage. You could then go with a half and half on any of the four segments. The ABR is a middle of the pack weapon. A fact I am ok with as it has it's uses. But this (Terminus perk) is the thing I think that is holding it back. Even after the change it won't be shooting up to best gun by far, but at least it'd have way more playstyles open to it.

Agree. The Greater Might perk may sound good in paper by increasing 10% damages against terminus. But truth is you're be fighting Majoris throughout your time in operation. Not to mention there are time that Terminus almost never appear in some OP map e.i Vox Libertas or Obelisk, and in some cases Reliquary too. In turn making that perk utter unless.

 Saber shouldn't even make bother make this perk, unless it increase against Majoris and boost another 5% as well. But at this point they should've just add another Divine Might just as you said increase raw damages.

Why the Auto Bolter is weak compare to the heavy?

Then try to think why Auto Bolter have 8 perk Max while the Heavy Bolt rifle have 12......

To be honest is a big oversight......

That could be a good addition as well. A small bonus of for example 5% raw damage to everything else would make it feasible to take. the 5% would benefit you for the whole mission. While the 10% to Terminus would only benefit you when/if it appears, but it'd still be a welcome bonus.​

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HomerJay wrote:

Why the Auto Bolter is weak compare to the heavy?

Then try to think why Auto Bolter have 8 perk Max while the Heavy Bolt rifle have 12......

To be honest is a big oversight......

Exactly. Also because Auto Bolt Rifle has little variety i.e Normal version and Ammo version, which in turn having least amount of Mastery Points. While other like the Bolt Carbine right after Mastercraft it has two more version, i,e Normal, Ammo, Marksman, and Marksman 2 (hight rate of fire) that's 11 points plus 1 for Mastered point, total of 12.

Like what? Why can't they give Auto Bolt Rifle a Damage version too? Increasing amount of Mastery points. Such weird decision...

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Barricade133 wrote:

That could be a good addition as well. A small bonus of for example 5% raw damage to everything else would make it feasible to take. the 5% would benefit you for the whole mission. While the 10% to Terminus would only benefit you when/if it appears, but it'd still be a welcome bonus.​

Yeah, if it stay as it is, there's almost no incentive to pick this perk, unless for progressing the branch sake. Adding another type of enemy will increase it usefulness by a large margin. If you go for the Head hunter branch, continue on with Elite hunter, then when down Great Might  and Rampage you'll get good amount of headshot and damages in turn sacrificing survival and ammo reserve. Sadly, that's depend on Saber decision if they wish to listen.

6 days has almost pass, and I haven't hear Saber respond to anything. Because I wish to hear what is their intention for designing such a state.

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Max_Will_It wrote:

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Barricade133 wrote:

That could be a good addition as well. A small bonus of for example 5% raw damage to everything else would make it feasible to take. the 5% would benefit you for the whole mission. While the 10% to Terminus would only benefit you when/if it appears, but it'd still be a welcome bonus.​

Yeah, if it stay as it is, there's almost no incentive to pick this perk, unless for progressing the branch sake. Adding another type of enemy will increase it usefulness by a large margin. If you go for the Head hunter branch, continue on with Elite hunter, then when down Great Might  and Rampage you'll get good amount of headshot and damages in turn sacrificing survival and ammo reserve. Sadly, that's depend on Saber decision if they wish to listen.

6 days has almost pass, and I haven't hear Saber respond to anything. Because I wish to hear what is their intention for designing such a state.

Mhmm. At this point, we are in a give feedback. Then wait and see kind of state.

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Barricade133 wrote:

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Max_Will_It wrote:

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Barricade133 wrote:

That could be a good addition as well. A small bonus of for example 5% raw damage to everything else would make it feasible to take. the 5% would benefit you for the whole mission. While the 10% to Terminus would only benefit you when/if it appears, but it'd still be a welcome bonus.​

Yeah, if it stay as it is, there's almost no incentive to pick this perk, unless for progressing the branch sake. Adding another type of enemy will increase it usefulness by a large margin. If you go for the Head hunter branch, continue on with Elite hunter, then when down Great Might  and Rampage you'll get good amount of headshot and damages in turn sacrificing survival and ammo reserve. Sadly, that's depend on Saber decision if they wish to listen.

6 days has almost pass, and I haven't hear Saber respond to anything. Because I wish to hear what is their intention for designing such a state.

Mhmm. At this point, we are in a give feedback. Then wait and see kind of state.

Guess will have to wait till Thursday then. That day will consider the first week of this PTS.

Hi! So, I come across a Youtube video, and I find this guy channel put out some pretty slick idea on how to fix Auto Bolter Rifle Problems in one go. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRTMF2WjAs 

The idea is that instead of worrying which perks should be replace, Saber should take the Auto Bolt Rifle integrate into the Bolt Rifle as "Auto" variant. Since ABR is just a bigger magazine and faster rate version of the Bolter Rifle. This way it should solve two birds in one stone: More Mastery points and better perks.

Its frustrating that that the ABR and even the HBR are still lackluster. For me they are the funnest to use and objectively make you feel the most like a space marine should when you use them....but they are just very very under done, i really hope that the devs one day give them some real love and buff with their stats and perks.