You should get some HP back from a finisher by default, like Vanguard can in PvE. ALL classes for PvE, and campain/storymode too. It doesnt need to be a high amount of HP either.

5% for Majoris. 15% for Extremis. 30% for Terminus. NEARBY teammates should share healing from normal finishers too, to help alleviate "kill stealing" as a potential source of friction between battlebrothers... encourage cooperation instead of competition.

Vanguard's perks can increase these values, making him better at regenerating HP without having a monopoly on it. (These values could also be doubled on lowest difficulty-mode to improve accessability).

This will make the game easier, but also mean far less frustration when the game hits you with some bullshit because it's now you can recover from mistakes/mishaps without schlorping up all the stims... if you play very well at least. Make mistates too often and you're still not gonna last long.

Lethal/Absolute difficulties will still be HARD, but those who play very well should be able to keep their HP up regardless, without having a stim addiction. Game doesnt need to be Darksouls to be fun/engaging. The only people who say the game is too easy already are the same people who think ACTUAL Darksouls is too easy.

Tbh I think the health system is fine as is.

Somewhat agree. Mostly just so that healing perks are not needed on higher diffs. Cause no matter what people say that they can play the game with their monitors off and keyboards not plugged in while filing their taxes and still not get hit once. Chip damage is unavoidable. However, I think what could be interesting is letting you heal off executed enraged enemies. Gives a reward for executing them, but comes with the risk of getting steam rolled by a unstunnable enemy. Say like, 10%. Every class can benefit from it. There is risk to get said reward, but it is still throttled to only have a small handful of enemies at a time that enrage and it is only able to be acquired by majoris enemies. And it'd be a helpful mechanic on the Lethal and Absolute diffs, as on lower ones it is not really needed.

TornadoXIII wrote:

You should get some HP back from a finisher by default, like Vanguard can in PvE. ALL classes for PvE, and campain/storymode too. It doesnt need to be a high amount of HP either.

5% for Majoris. 15% for Extremis. 30% for Terminus. NEARBY teammates should share healing from normal finishers too, to help alleviate "kill stealing" as a potential source of friction between battlebrothers... encourage cooperation instead of competition.

Vanguard's perks can increase these values, making him better at regenerating HP without having a monopoly on it. (These values could also be doubled on lowest difficulty-mode to improve accessability).

This will make the game easier, but also mean far less frustration when the game hits you with some bullshit because it's now you can recover from mistakes/mishaps without schlorping up all the stims... if you play very well at least. Make mistates too often and you're still not gonna last long.

Lethal/Absolute difficulties will still be HARD, but those who play very well should be able to keep their HP up regardless, without having a stim addiction. Game doesnt need to be Darksouls to be fun/engaging. The only people who say the game is too easy already are the same people who think ACTUAL Darksouls is too easy.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of extra healing mechanics will be added in when ever they add in the Apothecary, maybe even in some of the ways you described. As far as the short term though, I don't think they'd make it global for everyone, but maybe through prestige perks? If other classes could get the Vanguard's Adrenaline Rush, I feel like that in itself would be more than enough healing.

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IronWolf616 wrote:

TornadoXIII wrote:

You should get some HP back from a finisher by default, like Vanguard can in PvE. ALL classes for PvE, and campain/storymode too. It doesnt need to be a high amount of HP either.

5% for Majoris. 15% for Extremis. 30% for Terminus. NEARBY teammates should share healing from normal finishers too, to help alleviate "kill stealing" as a potential source of friction between battlebrothers... encourage cooperation instead of competition.

Vanguard's perks can increase these values, making him better at regenerating HP without having a monopoly on it. (These values could also be doubled on lowest difficulty-mode to improve accessability).

This will make the game easier, but also mean far less frustration when the game hits you with some bullshit because it's now you can recover from mistakes/mishaps without schlorping up all the stims... if you play very well at least. Make mistates too often and you're still not gonna last long.

Lethal/Absolute difficulties will still be HARD, but those who play very well should be able to keep their HP up regardless, without having a stim addiction. Game doesnt need to be Darksouls to be fun/engaging. The only people who say the game is too easy already are the same people who think ACTUAL Darksouls is too easy.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of extra healing mechanics will be added in when ever they add in the Apothecary, maybe even in some of the ways you described. As far as the short term though, I don't think they'd make it global for everyone, but maybe through prestige perks? If other classes could get the Vanguard's Adrenaline Rush, I feel like that in itself would be more than enough healing.

​Honestly after thinking about it, I'd rather them move all the healing perks over to the weapons themselves. More classes can benefit from the weapons allowing you a method to heal that every class that has access to it can pull from. Then they'd allow classes to choose their team perks that could benefit their team to heal in another more burst like manner. Vanguard as an example can get 5% from majoris executions with the Zeal perk then giving 30% on Extremis. Bulwark (as it works now, which I hope they change later) has Icon for it's team healing perk. And the Heavy full restoring hp after a down, but you still receive the wound. You generally don't want to stack too many of these and rather bring 1 maybe 2. And they'd restore a hefty chunk but require some sort of kill(s) on higher tier enemies to benefit, or some other astringent and specific thing to happen (like the heavies). And all classes should then have 2 team based ones for playstyles. Like Assault buffing Gunstrikes and reducing Ability cooldowns, while a third is some method for team healing. Say like Tactical requiring 10 ranged kills for 20% (with some sort of cooldown and need to below a threshold) or something like that as an example. Once more, depending on the squad, you could bring 1, 2 or even none at all.

For weapons though, it'd be on lesser tiered enemies (no higher than Majoris) but the boon would be reduced or you could not take it at all if you felt you were l33t enough. For example, we'll use a chainsword and ABR as examples here. Chainsword would require either 5 minoris kills at 10% with a 10 second or more cooldown, or 3 majoris executions for 10% on a 5 second cooldown. Either 1 of these perks or both that were placed on different trees to prevent double dipping. And the health value would allow you to go up to 1(ish) stimm being able to remove a wound for any weapon based health regen. Even if not that, get back up to 50% of health would be ok. ABR would need say, 5 ranged kills for 5% on no cooldown up to the described value as stated above. Or it could be 5 headshot kills for 10% on a 5 second cooldown. It'd remove the need for perks on classes and let them make some more interesting playstyle changing ones and have a team based healing method as a team option (if taken), if players wanted/needed to take a team healing perk with a very good value, but with far more astringent requirements. And then push the healing method to the weapons you equip where all classes can gain the benefits, but at smaller yet consistent values and let classes be somewhat self sufficient in their healing/maintenance. With cooldowns and limits to the healing in place to keep them from getting out of hand. Letting you somewhat stabilize, but not fully have you out of the woods so to speak. And then the class perks would be there for those "Oh crap!" moments and a method to possibly fix said oopsies. 

But to summarize:

Smaller consistent healing perks of 5-10% with built in shortish cooldowns to prevent gaining them from multiple sources quickly, and even then only when under and only up to a certain threshold types of perks would be on weapons. Team perks would give bigger heals with very astringent/specific situations and higher tiered enemy kills/executions required, but once more would be relegated to team perks.

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jasperjasperjasper wrote:

why is everyone always trying to make the game easier? If you find you’re losing health/dying a lot, there’s no shame in just playing at a different difficultly. 

I agree with this.
Multiple difficulties exist for the purpose of making gameplay more difficult the higher you go.
Not everone can handle the pressure of high-tier difficulties in a lot of games, and that's fine.
There are other tiers to choose from that can still offer a challenge but won't be as much of an uphill fight.

Seeing how the majority of players during the polls voted for higher enemy numbers and more aggressive enemies in high-tiers shows that the majority of people playing those tiers wants more challenge.
So why would Saber ruin that by making it easier by giving everyone a passive healing.

Before the data core upgrade system was added peoples major reason not to play on lower tiers was because they were locked out of gear progression and I could agree on that.
Now people can play whatever feels good for them and still be able to partake in progression.
And no, cosmetics locked behind difficulty isn't progression, it's just personal accomplishment and satisfaction.

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jasperjasperjasper wrote:

why is everyone always trying to make the game easier? If you find you’re losing health/dying a lot, there’s no shame in just playing at a different difficultly. 

The same reason why the Zoans were changed from their base version. They were "fine" as they were sure, but that doesn't mean they (and other things) can't be better. There are some rough edges to this game, even if I do thoroughly enjoy it and it's systems. And the health economy/system in my eyes is one of those things that can use some tweaking. It is "fine" as is. But it could be better. And much like players that want a better challenge, the current challenge is "fine" as it is. But it could also be better now couldn't it? I'd also wager you do not think stun locking is "fine" and many players, including myself, want it either mitigated or removed. But, removing that would also make the game much easier. So, should that stay as well?

I did happen to see a post on a youtube video where all classes got the 5% health on majoris and up executes. But in turn, stimms no longer grant any health and only cleanse wounds and leave you at the value you had. Still have to fight your way back up to stabilize. But it'd take kills, time and you still having to engage with the game to get said health back. That could be something I'd be willing to try.

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CzechKnight wrote:

Whatever you guys are suggesting, the health system needs to be changed. Just the fact item pick-ups are shared for everyone alone is good enough reason. It's pretty tedious to play this race with the other guys over who picks what, especially because most of us don't even talk while playing the game.

I'm in favour of making your enemies the health packs in a manner of speaking. You have to fight them to get health back, it's consistent albeit time consuming with a small 5% chunk and it forces you to engage with the game in an interesting way. Ranged is safe but you don't get health back. Melee is more dangerous but you can (through time and not making any further mistakes) claw your way back to stabilizing. And in turn they can then tune the difficulty even more because now everyone has a said consistent but effort requiring way to claw their way back up. Rather then relying on perks to do it. The perks would just give more at the cost of other damage adding perks. That said, I think default extremis/terminus health regen by default would be too much. That should stay as a team perk you need to take.