Greeting Battle-Brothers!​

I believe that difficulty scaling in Operations mode needs a complete revamp.

Now before you all get angry with me, I think the actual level of difficulty is fine - Ruthless and Lethal modes should be extremely hard to complete; what needs to be improved is the way that the difficulty is scaled.

How it is now:

Right now, the health and damage of enemies is increased as the difficulty is raised, and there are other artificial difficulty modifiers brought in, such as longer respawn times and quicker mortal wounds. While this is not an abnormal thing to do in a video game, this creates enemies (as basic as hormagaunts and tzaangors) that are unsatisfying to pour weaponfire and mêlée attacks into that can kill you in a few hits on their own, when leveling up a weapon should make it feel easier to kill the individual enemies, no matter the difficulty.

How to improve it:

I think that the devs should take the route of Helldivers 2. Nothing changes as the difficulty raises except for the number of enemies, the occurrence of heavier enemies, and the potential for planetary modifiers (note that there are no modifiers tied directly to the difficulty, simply an increased chance for the ones tied to a specific biome), and those of you that have played Helldivers can attest that the game is still fiendishly difficult on the highest levels. The combination of this difficulty system and the leveling system, in which there is no buffs to weapons and stats, only the acquirement of new equipment (I am not suggesting this leveling system for Space Marine 2, simply a similar difficulty system), is what makes Helldivers feel like a truly fair, skill-based game.

What specifically to change:

All enemies have the same statistics on every difficulty as they do in Minimal. What instead is raised is the number of them present in an encounter, and the frequency of tougher (Majoris, Extremis, Terminus) enemies, and, optionally, respawn times on Ruthless and Lethal are reduced to 60 seconds. This way, weapon progression can be felt even while progressing up the difficulties and there will be the satisfaction of being an honoured Space Marine that can mow down hordes of enemies, but there will still be extreme difficulty on the higher levels without feeling unfair or cancerous because seven Warriors, two Zoanthropes, a Lictor, a Carnifex, and a horde of hormagaunts and ranged enemies are all doing ridiculously buffed damage at the same time and just won't die. Balancing would naturally be required to find the sweet spot for the number of enemies on each difficulty, but I believe that the dev team has the skill and patience to pull this off.

The devs did right by me in Patch Hotfix 4.1 after the mistakes they made in Patch 4.0, but I believe this can be taken further to turn this into a game that is fun for everyone all of the time without losing its challenge.

Thank you for listening to my TED Talk ;) For the Emperor!

thej0ke626 wrote:
I dont understand why the tragic jump in difficulty in one stage up with 5 stages.

​ Saber originally catered much more for serious gamer’s who go more for ‘mission impossible’ states of affairs, but are as such a much smaller proportion of the gaming population involving therefore less financial returns.

As a result of this, Saber had to cater for the very much lager proportion of casual gamers who go more for a ‘target-shooter’ blast ~ which upset and angered the serious gamers with difficulty levels having become 'too' easy, despite not being easy enough for the casual gamers.

As serious gamers use social media for gaming considerations ~ they provoke attention and provide as such a great deal of advertising and therefore huge profit potential, hence Saber had to put the game back to the original settings more or less, and did some ‘Nerfing’ (downgrading) and some ‘Buffing’ (upgrading) in order to make it more survivable for the casual players, and more challenging for the serious players.

Obviously ~ more needs to be done n respect of fine-tuning the operating system’s machine learning.  

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Sentenc3 wrote:

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Volken_Rainer wrote:

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Edit: and before you call me sweater or nolifer: i have a work and i can play few hours after dinner, couse i got also a wonderful wife a son and i'm 45 years old. Ppl wanna play Games... to watch stuff there Is Netflix.

​I also have a job, a family and I like video games. The fact remains that if the game has lost so many players, it is not because people find it too easy, but rather because in two months everything and anything has been done, except the essentials.

Today, the difficulty mechanics are stupid and not many people enjoy the higher levels (which therefore prevent the less experienced from progressing), except you of course and a rather hardcore and elitist fringe of purists. Many players have trouble progressing while enjoying playing, because the difficulty is very poorly calibrated and very poorly thought out (in addition to regularly changing and creating confusion).

Edit: typo, Sorry english isn't my native language 

No problem, it's not my language either.

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Sentenc3 wrote:

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Volken_Rainer wrote:

​Sentenc3, no one is forcing you to play the easy way, the fifth and final difficulty mode is there for players like you, from there you have something to enjoy yourself.

Don't impose your vision (which, I maintain, is very elitist) on other players, in difficulty levels that no longer concern you a priori

I don't see what's complicated, except wanting to impose on a very large part of the other players, YOUR VISION of the game. Don't worry too much about what others want, no matter whether you like it or not.

They play in their sandbox and you in yours, normally coexistence is perfectly possible.

You should be on discussion threads dedicated to the level in the highest difficulty level (the new and very latest difficulty mode therefore), to propose things for players who are looking for the same thing as you. And not on discussion threads reporting the difficulties of players in low difficulty, where you are no longer.

The fact Is that After the 4.1 all becomes too Easy for many players.

Telther removed, fewer enemies.

Lethal Is now easier than ruthless before patch 3.0

Before 3.0 no armor chunk on minoris parry 

Every hit remove a whole armor chunk now minoris remove Little part of It. Stims didn't heal all contested healt.

I play only in the higher difficulty, you can see me as a masochist, but well, Lethal isn't Lethal anymore for the ppl who player ruthless before 3.0

I don't impose any vision for me was good have a relaxed game in lower difficulties and the harder have a challenge. For the whines and negative review now the harder difficulties are a joke.

This Is the opposite at the Moment, Who cannot beat the harder difficulties impose their vision or all the "elitist" as you continue to call me.

​What does it matter that this fourth difficulty level is no longer the same, whether based on version 3.0 or 4.1?

The fifth difficulty level is here now (as a legitimate sanctuary), it offers you the same rewards as the one just below, experience, currency and exclusive cometics in addition. So normally, you should not have to worry about what people who have difficulty completing the lower levels are asking for to get there more easily.

For them it is the only way to unlock the relics that allow them to finalize their Marines and for you it changes absolutely nothing, except that you do not like the way (and I do not blame them).

I am for an extreme difficulty level, like the very last one that came out. Just like I am for player ranks in PvP and PvE in order to sort players to allow close levels to find each other more easily in missions (in addition to the satisfaction of reaching such or such prestigious rank).

From there, if it is not that their approach to difficulty displeases you, I do not see where the problem is.

Now, just as I defend the accessibility positions that I claim, I also campaign for the highest difficulty levels (and future ranks) to be preserved, to satisfy players like you. This is perfectly normal. If less talented players were to demand that its difficulty be lowered, I will come and explain to them that their place is not here and to leave players like you alone and I will defend your position with regard to these lazy players.

I am for everyone to find what they are looking for in this game, around this universe that brings together categories of players from all walks of life.

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bewildered_oneO1 wrote:

As far as TED talks for Emperors go ~ it is very well reasoned in my opinion, very well reasoned indeed.

Thank you, brother!

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Sentenc3 wrote:

This game Is already too Easy.

Saber continued to decrease the difficulty and at the Moment this game lost a lot of players from the Daily peak of 75K now we got 15K.

This game was meant to be hard, maybe the newcomers don't knows but before 3.0 every hit was a chunk of armor down , every hit minoris too,and parry vs minoris didn't give any armor. Ruthless was very hard but still the game had a lot of players. Obv was also a new game now It Is 2 months old.

Lotta players left the game after the difficulty reduction done in 4.1 the One done couse all the carebear was doing negative reviews upset they can't handle Lethal.

And you are here to ask to make easier?

Do you wanna a game or a screensaver?

Lethal now is already a joke, i've completed It in 4.0 with Telther and was hard but a so good challenge, It was fun.

I dunno why ppl who can't handle higher difficulty levels ask to reduce the difficulty. There are two simple ways 1) play lower difficulty 2) become a better player. Ask to reduce the difficulty Just for the ego of beating the max level is a nonsense.

And play lower levels gives only lesser xp, wanna more xp? Earn It. There Is no shame playing lower levels. You Need few ruthless run for relic data and now ruthless Is a joke.

Edit: and before you call me sweater or nolifer: i have a work and i can play few hours after dinner, couse i got also a wonderful wife a son and i'm 45 years old. Ppl wanna play Games... to watch stuff there Is Netflix.

Hey there!

I just want to say that I completely agree the game should have a difficulty that is extremely hard, to cater to those who play for the challenge.

My biggest issue is the manner in which the difficulty is achieved. I would be happy if Ruthless and Lethal difficulty were much harder than they are now if that difficulty felt fair, and wasn't composed of artificial modifiers (also, good news for you if you like the tether mechanic, the devs said they might add optional modifiers for private matches in future). Implementation of the methods I suggested has potential to make the game brutally hard, but more enjoyable for the casual players as well as higher skill players like you.

Like I mentioned in my main post, if you've ever played Helldivers you'll know how ridiculously hard the higher difficulties are without changing any of the games mechanics (respawn time, enemy health, player health, weapon efficacy, incoming damage, etc), and so this is a system proven to work for what everyone wants, not needing to cater more for one side (the casuals or the elites).

The game's high levels should absolutely be grueling and rewarding to complete, and I am by no means suggesting they are nerfed. Rather I am offering a method of making it feel less of a slog at times while retaining its challenge.

Thank you for taking the time to comment!

Ok I feel like I have to lay out how a difficulty system for every game should work:

Easy: All players are capable of playing this mode.

Normal: Low skilled players struggle here, the average skilled player regularly plays this mode.

Hard: Low skilled players find this too difficult and rarely succeed, the average player struggles here, skilled players regularly play this mode.

Very Hard: Skilled players struggle here, average players find this too difficult and rarely succeed, this mode is too difficult for anyone else.

If you are wondering "Isn't that how the game is at the moment?" No, it's not. I don't consider myself a skilled player, just a bit above average and I was expecting it to take a while to complete all Operations on Lethal. Yet only 2 mission failures and the rest were a first time success with friends of similar ability. What I want to see is a difficulty with great rewards, but it's a real challenge for me to take on. Therefore it's a struggle that will take a long time to complete, not something I can do in an afternoon.

We greatly appreciate discussions like this. Difficulty settings are indeed a controversial topic, but this thread, along with all the comments and interest from the gaming community, provides us with invaluable insights. Your contributions help us understand what gamers are truly seeking, and we will ensure that all this information is communicated to our development team. They will take your feedback into account as they work on future updates and improvements.

Your help and enthusiasm are instrumental in shaping the gaming experience, and we are grateful for your active participation. Thank you for your continued support and for being a vital part of our community. Together, we can create a gaming experience that is more enjoyable and tailored to the needs of players everywhere.

If you need any further assistance or have additional feedback, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at https://support.focus-entmt.com/.

Thank you once again for your contributions.

Sincerely, The Focus Entertainment Team

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bewildered_oneO1 wrote:

thej0ke626 wrote:
I dont understand why the tragic jump in difficulty in one stage up with 5 stages.

​ Saber originally catered much more for serious gamer’s who go more for ‘mission impossible’ states of affairs, but are as such a much smaller proportion of the gaming population involving therefore less financial returns.

As a result of this, Saber had to cater for the very much lager proportion of casual gamers who go more for a ‘target-shooter’ blast ~ which upset and angered the serious gamers with difficulty levels having become 'too' easy, despite not being easy enough for the casual gamers.

As serious gamers use social media for gaming considerations ~ they provoke attention and provide as such a great deal of advertising and therefore huge profit potential, hence Saber had to put the game back to the original settings more or less, and did some ‘Nerfing’ (downgrading) and some ‘Buffing’ (upgrading) in order to make it more survivable for the casual players, and more challenging for the serious players.

Obviously ~ more needs to be done n respect of fine-tuning the operating system’s machine learning.  

This is not true. Saber manufacturers eccentric shooter style games that only appeal to a niche audience to begin with, and that niche becomes even more nuanced when you start looking at the fact that their games are "quirky," to put it lightly. As a developer, they do not make "bad" games, but they do not make "good" games either, certainly never "great" ones.

What happened here, us that Focus has access to the WH IP, and they wanted to make a co op shooter; Saber is a developer they work with routinely who has experience in this department... It's that simple. Your entire post is just baseless lies that are meant to paint a picture where you're some kind of "real" gamer and you can "other-other" "casuals." You're no elite anything, and "casuals" are regular gamers, tough guy. This push by lame, uselessly elitist, sweat lord-try hards to make "casual" an insult is disgusting. 

SM2 is a good enough game that has several excellent maps and a cooperative-shooter-centered foundation that draws people in and definitely activates the good old addiction-reward circuitry in the human brain. That said, it's also a very basic game full of juvenile development mechanics and an even more irritating disconnect between the actual development team and what makes a game "fun," or what attracts players to a game to begin with. 

People like you are part of the problem with the gaming industry, actually, you're part of the problem with the world in general, these days... Through your incessant need to feel superior to other people, which you simply are not superior to, you engage in this stupid act where you campaign against your own interests, as you try desperately to attach your image to something bigger than you are capable of being. 

It's very sad.

My biggest problem with lethal are the how some of the ranged majoris work (1) and respawn time (2). 

(1) Sometimes the snipers quickscope and instantly deletes 90% hp that you will probably never recover. This happens often on Assault when you jump in the air with no indication that the sniper is about to fire. I don't mind the damage that the sniper does but sometimes you get no warning and therefore can't dodge/defend. This feels unfair and not skill based, it's more or less luck. The other ranged unit that just sucks to meet is the green spray "shotgun" version. Especially if they enrage. It's very hard to deal with unless you have strong ranged weapon or kraks. Trying to melee them is just suicide.

(2) If I go down in a random lethal lobby (90% of times due to point 1 cheese above) I just quit. I'm not gonna wait 5 minutes. I usually play lethal solo because of this. If me or another player goes down the game is usually over unless the downed player quits to allow another random to join.

I don't mind the overall difficulty, it's the randomness of the ranged cheese that gets me. The sniper can be dodged if you get the visual que, but sometimes you don't and the enraged ranged majoris are not fun. I don't think they should be able to spam shots on autofire in your face while you melee the shit out of them. You have to evade, run away, take cover and shoot them.

You can play 'perfect' for 25 min, feel like a god,  then all of a sudden BOOM! Instant death and you didn't even see the threat. I like agency that allows the players to react.

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Sentenc3 wrote:

This game Is already too Easy.

Saber continued to decrease the difficulty and at the Moment this game lost a lot of players from the Daily peak of 75K now we got 15K.

This game was meant to be hard, maybe the newcomers don't knows but before 3.0 every hit was a chunk of armor down , every hit minoris too,and parry vs minoris didn't give any armor. Ruthless was very hard but still the game had a lot of players. Obv was also a new game now It Is 2 months old.

Lotta players left the game after the difficulty reduction done in 4.1 the One done couse all the carebear was doing negative reviews upset they can't handle Lethal.

And you are here to ask to make easier?

Do you wanna a game or a screensaver?

Lethal now is already a joke, i've completed It in 4.0 with Telther and was hard but a so good challenge, It was fun.

I dunno why ppl who can't handle higher difficulty levels ask to reduce the difficulty. There are two simple ways 1) play lower difficulty 2) become a better player. Ask to reduce the difficulty Just for the ego of beating the max level is a nonsense.

And play lower levels gives only lesser xp, wanna more xp? Earn It. There Is no shame playing lower levels. You Need few ruthless run for relic data and now ruthless Is a joke.

Edit: and before you call me sweater or nolifer: i have a work and i can play few hours after dinner, couse i got also a wonderful wife a son and i'm 45 years old. Ppl wanna play Games... to watch stuff there Is Netflix.

Literally cope and seethe. Nice larp too.

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CatoCordurius wrote:

We greatly appreciate discussions like this. Difficulty settings are indeed a controversial topic, but this thread, along with all the comments and interest from the gaming community, provides us with invaluable insights. Your contributions help us understand what gamers are truly seeking, and we will ensure that all this information is communicated to our development team. They will take your feedback into account as they work on future updates and improvements.

Your help and enthusiasm are instrumental in shaping the gaming experience, and we are grateful for your active participation. Thank you for your continued support and for being a vital part of our community. Together, we can create a gaming experience that is more enjoyable and tailored to the needs of players everywhere.

If you need any further assistance or have additional feedback, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at https://support.focus-entmt.com/.

Thank you once again for your contributions.

Sincerely, The Focus Entertainment Team

You people don't listen and dont really care. You also clearly dont play or test your game or half of the shit people have been complaining about since ea wouldn't still be present.