sounds nice!

I support this.

This is all we need! 

​You've outlined very well what a progressive pvp should be!!

All of us just want to play with our friends. That's all.

I support this, 6 player lobbies and more gamemodes are definitely needed.

The PVP community needs 6 player lobbies in public Eternal War matches, we just want to play with our friends in a full lobby of Battle-Brothers, that should be the number one priority. All of your other Tenets are fantastic ideas, the devs need to implement those also. 

​

Lehi5 wrote:

sounds nice!

Thanks Battle-Brother. 

​

Falci722 wrote:

I support this.

Thank you for the support. 

Well, first off, the number one problem is the atrociously low tickrate for the netcode. (ties into point 7, ranked/competitive is pointless before it is fixed).
But after that, yeah maybe. Since PVP will not feel right regardless of the player counts or maps or modes, until the netcode is drastically improved.

So secondly, once the actual netcode is improved, vast additions can be made for satisfaction of experience from gameplay in PVP.

Being able to "party queue" with a full team is a nice idea if it only allows being matched with equally sized parties and not just to be able to stomp on randoms and ultimately being a detractor to game experience for everyone not able to do such "pre-made" party queue-ups.

But besides that, it would be FAR better if they focused on creating PvPvE and also high player-count modes (think fortress assaults in eternal crusade, battlefield games, etc).

Focusing first on making content and modes that focus on the attractive aspects of Warhammer 40.000, and not so much down to the nitty gritty lone-wolf applicable stuff. That way the players can get the feeling of the "oh shit"-moments of the grim dark future of the 41st millennium (or rather the 42nd now), having to fight other players and then suddenly having to deal with tyranids additionally as a problem for both loyal and chaos marines, or attack/defend modes like a king-of-the-hill style fortress attack or outpost attack would incentivize teamplay and using class abilities more promptly as team-supporting measures (which would also incentivize Saber Interactive to add apothecaries [point 8]).

That tangents point 4 and 9.

A point of note for point 5, that stuff is definitely coming so that wouldn't be much of a thing to try to force forward early on (even if a range would be nice just to get used to how equipment feels). But I would add onto that and say to add obstacle courses there too, to allow players to "sharpen their senses" on the ship while maybe waiting for players to be ready.

For point 6, it would be cool if different classes got "class-fitting tasks" in matches, and ordeal-rewarded for completing the given tasks in matches. For instance:

1. Common "primary missions" for all classes; "capture objectives" and "defend objectives" upon taking an objective with a tiered progress within those baseline primary missions (reach 10, reach 20, reach 30, reach 40, objective points etc) so the more effort you put into playing objectives the more you are rewarded progressively.
2. Class-focused ones, tactical "mark X enemies while attacking/defending an objective", bulwark "restore X amount of armor to friendlies on points" or tiered up "prevent lethal armor damage to friendlies (damage that the banner heals back that otherwise would be lethal)", heavy "shield friendlies from x amount of damage with iron halo", sniper "take out x amount of airborne assaults", Vanguard "take out x amount of enemies from a higher up vantage point", etc
3. New variable tasks that pop up during matches to destabilize the flow of combat, maybe something like a cache of intel that (if taken) will give a team an obscene amount of credits as a reward, or resources that can be accumulated to get some cosmetic reward, or even caches that hold non-customizable equipment that can turn the tide of a battle (like specialty weaponry, or even a terminator), or even chapter-specific loot rewards from doing additional objectives AND winning the match as well (like getting sanguinary guard helmets and winged jump pack). Generally rewards that require doing more than just the base objective of the match mode, maybe even rewards like two-handed power swords and such that can only be acquired through doing additional objectives, or twin-linked and other types of combi-bolters, new weapon-types that require an effort that otherwise are not available to use.

​

There's a lot that can be done, but prior to it all, the netcode has to be the primary focus to get it to a respectable state, because what the game is currently "known for", is being a laggy mess in pvp for people not playing it (yet), and as much as I love the game that's not incorrect at all.

playing a game with more friends always equals more fun, more fun in a game equals bigger and longer lasting player base, it would be a win-win situation​

​

Benjji92 wrote:

playing a game with more friends always equals more fun, more fun in a game equals bigger and longer lasting player base, it would be a win-win situation​

You act as if the majority of gamers aren't solo-playing as is.. there isn't really any place to gather for accumulating fellowships for playing the game. The discord is a "already in the club" type of area, the forums don't have sections for it, and there isn't any guild/clan type of system in the game for it (though that would be awesome, like Eternal Crusade had).

Most gamers are solo gamers, that's just how it is, so when encountering large premade groups, they will most likely just get a negative experience or leave matches until systems for group-play are added and with functionality to get steam friends and whatnot.

I personally have a few I can play with, but I don't assume for a second most people do because of that. So my two cents for such a topic is that it is an extremely low priority topic with almost certain irrelevance for the devs to focus on, as I'm fairly sure they recognize the potential detrimental nature of it if there aren't supporting systems like guilds/clans added first.

I don't mean to be a party pooper, just have to shine a little light onto the reality of the situation. Now if they added a "previous players" list like Helldivers 2 has, that might be grounds for it to flourish from there on out.

​

WARPoetProfessor wrote:

Disclaimer: This thread/idea package is the legal successor of the original PVP number one problem post, which had a monumental interest on the Discord feedback forum, the whole PVP community supported and reinforces this case, the original post (the whole Discord feedback section is not available, so we continue here) had hundreds of supportive comments, likes, interactions and suggestions. Together we will reach again this success, the developers will implement these changes in the game, so the PVP community can flourish for years to come. I also supplement my original number on problem concept with the 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP solution package. Join me and the whole PVP community in our crusade, this will be a long dissertation, so read it through and then your help (with supporting comments, likes, sharing, inviting Battle-Brothers to the discussion) is greatly appreciated. I will attach pictures to this post. Because this is a long thread, bring some refreshments in order to read my whole magnum opus.

Context about the attached pictures in order: 1. Respected Mzulft told us that 2025 will be the year of PVP. 2.+3. Respected Numitor has sent my 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP to the dev team. 4. A voting, which garnered enormous support for six player lobbies in public PVP matches. 5. A photo about my original 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP.

As mentioned in the title, we cannot play together as a bigger party in PVP, because it is limited to three members. The solution (six player lobbies in public PVP) is a must have feature, the PVP community has been asking this from the launch of the game: Six player lobbies in public PVP

If you have the concern, that six players will coordinate against solo players again obvious and easy solution: In matchmaking bigger groups should be playing against also bigger groups. other games also have this premade-solo matchmaking system, and it works perfectly.

Space Marine 1 was a huge success, and we enjoyed it for years until SM2 launched, because we could play together in PVP matches with five, or even seven friends on the same team (the max number of players was 8vs8.) At least do the same, let us play in six player lobbies during public PVP matches. Remove the limitation in public Eternal War matches, so we can play with five other Battle-Brothers. Many SM2 players dont play the game now, cause they want to enjoy their gaming time with a bigger group of friends. This will help the longevity of SM2. Dont limit the players, we just want to enjoy this wonderful game, which we bought, with our friends.

Just for a quick thought experiment: If the developers implement ranked PVP, then in the current ecosystem there will be two random 3 player lobbies, who will be fighting on the same side in a very competitive environment? And as a side note, I have been gaming for a long time, and have never encountered this problem, that there is a six player multiplayer mode, and I can invite only two of my squad mates. And as a secondary side note, yes we are looking forward to private matches in PVP, but we want to play together as a full squad of six Space Marines in public Eternal War matches.

Now we explore the 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP. Together as a community, we have already achieved crossplay in PVP, now the devs need to implement the other Tenets also. Firstly I will enumerate the issues, which should be implemented or changed, and after that I will elaborate how it could be materialized. 1. Six player lobbies in Eternal War public matches 2. Crossplay inn PVP (implemented) 3. Chaos customization 4. More PVP maps 5. Battle Barge expansion proper and complex firing/shooting range 6. Progression in PVP should be more complex (quests, events, special and unique armor parts for completing challanges) 7. Ranked PVP. We have already manifested crossplay, so I will suggest two additional big Tenets: 8. More classes (Apothecary, Chaplain, Techmarine and their Chaos counterparts: Chaos Apothecary, Dark Apostle, Warpsmith) weapons and grenades. This one is also PVE content. 9. A new PVP game mode with more players 8vs8, 12vs12 and the iconic Dreadnought from SM1.

The details: 1. Six player lobbies in public Eternal War matches is a must have, I have elaborated earlier why in great length.

2. Crossplay in PVP is already implemented.

3. Chaos customization. I know there won't be as complex customization for Chaos as for the Loyalist, but in PVP 50% in your gaming time you are playing Chaos/Heretic Marines, it feels they are totally neglected. Firstly remove the class lock, so we can play as a Tactical Night Lord (in SM2 game context Talos Valcoran should be identified as a Tactical, cause his weapons are a bolter and power sword), Heavy Death Guard, Bulwark Alpha Legion. New armour parts for the Chaos classes, champion and chapter skins, weapon skins and customization option to to make our Chaos Marines unique, this is a must have. Chaos Space Marines are the second most played faction on tabletop, so they are hundreds of tousands of SM2 players who want Chaos customization. You could have a dedicated Season Pass focusing on Chaos customization, it will be received with huge hype.

4. More maps. The new PVP map Tomb is fantastic, it plays drastically different, than the other three, but we need a whole lot of new maps, if it is easier and faster for the devs copy adequately sized and balanced map parts from the Campaign and PVE as new PVP maps. If there is a possibility implement and grafically update the iconic locations from Space Marine 1 like Shattered Bridge, Manufactorium or Basilica. The community needs at least 4-6 new maps, so it can be a varied experience. For totally new map ideas from the ground up, lets be a bit creative with the milieu of the new arena: let us have a map inside a Battle Barge or other space vessel, a unique 40k style gothic city center, jungle terrain, an Adeptus Mechanicus factory, desert map, ice world, have a bit more dymanic maps like you have in PVE, which means you can see in the background other forces fighting, while you are in a closed PVP arena.

5. Battle Barge expansion proper firing/shooting range, combat simulator/training ground. A totally new area in the Battle-Barge (also PVE content) a shooting range, where you can test all of your different weapons, grenades, class abilities, together with your Battle-Brothers, so we can have potentially six Space Marines having simultaneously doing weapon and tactical drills/combat simulations, we could test combos with abilities (in the sparring arena at the moment the classes dont have their abilities, so assault cannot practise jump attack combinations.) The firing range could be an expansion of the existing sparring arena, but it should have more options, and be way more complex. Different targets, showing how much a weapon damages with each bolt round, combat servitors, paper targets, special targets for melee weapons. It should be a system like the trials, but you can can determine every aspect of it, so you can test the weapon you want in a tranquil environment. This is also a community area, where you can have shooting tournaments with your Battle-Brothers, or official sniper tourneys with commentators and measurable accuracy points, regarding your targets and bolter rounds. Proper firing range, Battle-Barge expansion

6. Progression in PVP should be more complex (quests, events, special and unique armor parts for completing challanges.) Similar to PVE, make armor parts only available through PVP challenges (like the lethal helmet in PVE), PVP only weapon skins, give the players more goals to grind for, community challenges like in Helldivers 2. Prestige System, special icons, ranks, emotes, cosmetic options (Chaos customization) if you reach the max level, have a 10 kills without dying during a Match etc.

7. Ranked PVP. This does not need a long explanation, a ranked PVP mode, with special rewards, really unique and spectacular armor parts, ranks, global leaderboard, official tournaments, a real competitive dimension of SM2.

8. More classes and weapons, grenades. The forums are already full with great ideas, there are modders who implemented new classes. The three aforementioned new classes are a must have with their Chaos/Heretic counterparts. As for weapons, grenades we need the iconic ones as soon as we can: power axe/chain axe, lightning claws, crozius arcanum, storm bolter, assault bolter, volkite caliver, assault cannon/autocannon (bit harder to balance), inferno pistol, flamer (yes Brother, bring the heavy flamer), rad grenade (area denial), toxin/gas/virus grenade (area denial), plasma grenade, haywire grenade/scramblers (jamming enemy equipment, abilities for a time), Holy Orb of Antioch. Details of the idea: New grenades in details

9. A new PVP game mode with more players 8vs8, 12vs12 and the iconic Dreadnought from SM1. Also does not need a lengthy specification, a more intense PVP mode, with bigger teams, and the truly iconic and unique Dreadnought game mode from Space Marine 1.

Some smaller quality of life changes the PVP commnunity also needs: map voting, skippable map intro, customizing your Battle-Barge with icons, banners, changing the colour of the Thunderhawk (PVE content also), nerf the shock grenade (take away only the flash effect, then it is still viable with damaging effect, and makes harder to aim), optional clan tags before the name of the players, in private PVP matches there should must be a spectator option, so a 13th player could be a judge/commentator hosting tournaments, clan battles, official tourneys, showing the amount of damage we deal during PVP matches/damage counter (scoreboard at the end.)

Dear developers, implement these changes in Eternal War public matches and we, the PVP community will support this game for as long, as we have Space Marine 1, which means for a really long time. If you need more details, ideas on how to improve PVP, feel free to contact me.

My fellow Battle-Brothers, help these ideas to be implemented via the developers with supporting likes, comments and most importantly sharing, I assume every PVP player would like to play with his friends (more than 2), and I am hoping that our PVE Space Marines also reinforce this cause, we should support each other to receive new content (and basic features like six player lobbies in public PVP matches) in a friendly atmosphere.

I support this idea too

​The PVP community needs 6 player lobbies in public Eternal War matchmaking, we just want to play with our friends. We have bought SM2 to enjoy our gaming time with a full squad of Battle-Brothers (six Space Marines), we could do this in Space Marine 1. Every other multiplayer game has this basic feature. Dear developers, make this number one priority, many of my friends has already left the game, because we cannot play together in public PVP. How can we build longevity in SM2, if we are separted in two different, limited lobbies only with 3 players?

And by the way, after implementing the 6 player lobbies in public PVP matches, we also need the other Tenets. Fantastic ideas in a truly comprehensive thread. 

​

​

FabiusBile wrote:

​The PVP community needs 6 player lobbies in public Eternal War matchmaking, we just want to play with our friends. We have bought SM2 to enjoy our gaming time with a full squad of Battle-Brothers (six Space Marines), we could do this in Space Marine 1. Every other multiplayer game has this basic feature. Dear developers, make this number one priority, many of my friends has already left the game, because we cannot play together in public PVP. How can we build longevity in SM2, if we are separted in two different, limited lobbies only with 3 players?

And by the way, after implementing the 6 player lobbies in public PVP matches, we also need the other Tenets. Fantastic ideas in a truly comprehensive thread. 

​

Why would you not ask for 8 player lobbies instead first? SM1 had 8v8, we're stuck with measly 6v6, so if anything.. get more player counts prior to requesting larger group-joins

​

WARPoetProfessor wrote:

Disclaimer: This thread/idea package is the legal successor of the original PVP number one problem post, which had a monumental interest on the Discord feedback forum, the whole PVP community supported and reinforces this case, the original post (the whole Discord feedback section is not available, so we continue here) had hundreds of supportive comments, likes, interactions and suggestions. Together we will reach again this success, the developers will implement these changes in the game, so the PVP community can flourish for years to come. I also supplement my original number on problem concept with the 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP solution package. Join me and the whole PVP community in our crusade, this will be a long dissertation, so read it through and then your help (with supporting comments, likes, sharing, inviting Battle-Brothers to the discussion) is greatly appreciated. I will attach pictures to this post. Because this is a long thread, bring some refreshments in order to read my whole magnum opus. I will also affix more details regarding my Tenets, via Focus Forum Idea links. 

Context about the attached pictures in order: 1. Respected Mzulft told us that 2025 will be the year of PVP. 2.+3. Respected Numitor has sent my 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP to the dev team. 4. A voting, which garnered enormous support for six player lobbies in public PVP matches. 5. A photo about my original 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP.

As mentioned in the title, we cannot play together as a bigger party in PVP, because it is limited to three members. The solution (six player lobbies in public PVP) is a must have feature, the PVP community has been asking this from the launch of the game: Six player lobbies in public PVP

If you have the concern, that six players will coordinate against solo players again obvious and easy solution: In matchmaking bigger groups should be playing against also bigger groups. other games also have this premade-solo matchmaking system, and it works perfectly.

Space Marine 1 was a huge success, and we enjoyed it for years until SM2 launched, because we could play together in PVP matches with five, or even seven friends on the same team (the max number of players was 8vs8.) At least do the same, let us play in six player lobbies during public PVP matches. Remove the limitation in public Eternal War matches, so we can play with five other Battle-Brothers. Many SM2 players dont play the game now, cause they want to enjoy their gaming time with a bigger group of friends. This will help the longevity of SM2. Dont limit the players, we just want to enjoy this wonderful game, which we bought, with our friends.

Just for a quick thought experiment: If the developers implement ranked PVP, then in the current ecosystem there will be two random 3 player lobbies, who will be fighting on the same side in a very competitive environment? And as a side note, I have been gaming for a long time, and have never encountered this problem, that there is a six player multiplayer mode, and I can invite only two of my squad mates. And as a secondary side note, yes we are looking forward to private matches in PVP, but we want to play together as a full squad of six Space Marines in public Eternal War matches.

Now we explore the 7 Tenets of how to improve PVP. Together as a community, we have already achieved crossplay in PVP, now the devs need to implement the other Tenets also. Firstly I will enumerate the issues, which should be implemented or changed, and after that I will elaborate how it could be materialized. 1. Six player lobbies in Eternal War public matches 2. Crossplay inn PVP (implemented) 3. Chaos customization 4. More PVP maps 5. Battle Barge expansion proper and complex firing/shooting range 6. Progression in PVP should be more complex (quests, events, special and unique armor parts for completing challanges) 7. Ranked PVP. We have already manifested crossplay, so I will suggest two additional big Tenets: 8. More classes (Apothecary, Chaplain, Techmarine and their Chaos counterparts: Chaos Apothecary, Dark Apostle, Warpsmith) weapons and grenades. This one is also PVE content. 9. A new PVP game mode with more players 8vs8, 12vs12 and the iconic Dreadnought from SM1.

The details: 1. Six player lobbies in public Eternal War matches is a must have, I have elaborated earlier why in great length.

2. Crossplay in PVP is already implemented.

3. Chaos customization. I know there won't be as complex customization for Chaos as for the Loyalist, but in PVP 50% in your gaming time you are playing Chaos/Heretic Marines, it feels they are totally neglected. Firstly remove the class lock, so we can play as a Tactical Night Lord (in SM2 game context Talos Valcoran should be identified as a Tactical, cause his weapons are a bolter and power sword), Heavy Death Guard, Bulwark Alpha Legion. New armour parts for the Chaos classes, champion and chapter skins, weapon skins and customization option to to make our Chaos Marines unique, this is a must have. Chaos Space Marines are the second most played faction on tabletop, so they are hundreds of tousands of SM2 players who want Chaos customization. You could have a dedicated Season Pass focusing on Chaos customization, it will be received with huge hype.

4. More maps. The new PVP map Tomb is fantastic, it plays drastically different, than the other three, but we need a whole lot of new maps, if it is easier and faster for the devs copy adequately sized and balanced map parts from the Campaign and PVE as new PVP maps. If there is a possibility implement and grafically update the iconic locations from Space Marine 1 like Shattered Bridge, Manufactorium or Basilica. The community needs at least 4-6 new maps, so it can be a varied experience. For totally new map ideas from the ground up, lets be a bit creative with the milieu of the new arena: let us have a map inside a Battle Barge or other space vessel, a unique 40k style gothic city center, jungle terrain, an Adeptus Mechanicus factory, desert map, ice world, have a bit more dymanic maps like you have in PVE, which means you can see in the background other forces fighting, while you are in a closed PVP arena.

5. Battle Barge expansion proper firing/shooting range, combat simulator/training ground. A totally new area in the Battle-Barge (also PVE content) a shooting range, where you can test all of your different weapons, grenades, class abilities, together with your Battle-Brothers, so we can have potentially six Space Marines having simultaneously doing weapon and tactical drills/combat simulations, we could test combos with abilities (in the sparring arena at the moment the classes dont have their abilities, so assault cannot practise jump attack combinations.) The firing range could be an expansion of the existing sparring arena, but it should have more options, and be way more complex. Different targets, showing how much a weapon damages with each bolt round, combat servitors, paper targets, special targets for melee weapons. It should be a system like the trials, but you can can determine every aspect of it, so you can test the weapon you want in a tranquil environment. This is also a community area, where you can have shooting tournaments with your Battle-Brothers, or official sniper tourneys with commentators and measurable accuracy points, regarding your targets and bolter rounds. Proper firing range, Battle-Barge expansion

6. Progression in PVP should be more complex (quests, events, special and unique armor parts for completing challanges.) Similar to PVE, make armor parts only available through PVP challenges (like the lethal helmet in PVE), PVP only weapon skins, give the players more goals to grind for, community challenges like in Helldivers 2. Prestige System, special icons, ranks, emotes, cosmetic options (Chaos customization) if you reach the max level, have a 10 kills without dying during a Match etc.

7. Ranked PVP. This does not need a long explanation, a ranked PVP mode, with special rewards, really unique and spectacular armor parts, ranks, global leaderboard, official tournaments, a real competitive dimension of SM2.

8. More classes and weapons, grenades. The forums are already full with great ideas, there are modders who implemented new classes. The three aforementioned new classes are a must have with their Chaos/Heretic counterparts. As for weapons, grenades we need the iconic ones as soon as we can: power axe/chain axe, lightning claws, crozius arcanum, storm bolter, assault bolter, volkite caliver, assault cannon/autocannon (bit harder to balance), inferno pistol, flamer (yes Brother, bring the heavy flamer), rad grenade (area denial), toxin/gas/virus grenade (area denial), plasma grenade, haywire grenade/scramblers (jamming enemy equipment, abilities for a time), Holy Orb of Antioch. Details of the idea: New grenades in details

9. A new PVP game mode with more players 8vs8, 12vs12 and the iconic Dreadnought from SM1. Also does not need a lengthy specification, a more intense PVP mode, with bigger teams, and the truly iconic and unique Dreadnought game mode from Space Marine 1. Dreadnought game mode details Unique new PVP/PVE game mode, Left 4 Dead style, 3 Tyranid Extremis-tier characters vs 3 Space Marines: Details, Left 4 Dead style game mode, PVP/PVE

Some smaller quality of life changes the PVP commnunity also needs: map voting, skippable map intro, customizing your Battle-Barge with icons, banners, changing the colour of the Thunderhawk (PVE content also), nerf the shock grenade (take away only the flash effect, then it is still viable with damaging effect, and makes harder to aim), optional clan tags before the name of the players, in private PVP matches there should must be a spectator option, so a 13th player could be a judge/commentator hosting tournaments, clan battles, official tourneys, showing the amount of damage we deal during PVP matches/damage counter (scoreboard at the end.)

Dear developers, implement these changes in Eternal War public matches and we, the PVP community will support this game for as long, as we have Space Marine 1, which means for a really long time. If you need more details, ideas on how to improve PVP, feel free to contact me.

My fellow Battle-Brothers, help these ideas to be implemented via the developers with supporting likes, comments and most importantly sharing, I assume every PVP player would like to play with his friends (more than 2), and I am hoping that our PVE Space Marines also reinforce this cause, we should support each other to receive new content (and basic features like six player lobbies in public PVP matches) in a friendly atmosphere.

I really like the new PVP game modes you mentioned. After implementing the 6 player lobbies in public PVP matches we need the Dreadnought and the hybrid PVP/PVE game mode, which has 3 Tyranid Extremis-tier players against 3 Space Marines, great ideas. 

I support this idea